Speaker 1: 0:00

Mark, you're a force of nature. I've christened you. Mr Doncaster, until you do that speech, you're not allowed to speak in the chamber. So you're muted.

Speaker 2: 0:09

So it's the one thing that no one knows about you, that you can share with us today, I've only ever won one election that I stood in.

Speaker 1: 0:17

I spent almost three years on the programme and remember for a year we ran it in shadow running because we were worried.

Speaker 2: 0:25

How does it feel as a Spurs fan to win a trophy in 40 years?

Speaker 1: 0:30

Emotional. I think politicians and parliaments have to understand more so about what industry's corporate interests are and help influence industry as much as say we're going to define a law here and you have to abide by it much as say we're going to define a law here and you have to abide by it.

Speaker 2: 0:54

Hi and welcome to this episode of the Automated Analytics podcast. I'm delighted to have with me here today in Doncaster Lord Ranger of Northwood Colvier. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 1: 0:59

Thanks, mark, really happy to be here.

Speaker 2: 1:01

Now, you've been a peer for the last 24 months, but you've been in industry for 25 years. How's the last 24 months gone?

Speaker 1: 1:11

It's been challenging, it's been interesting and it's been very different.

Speaker 1: 1:14

Look, I think I should start off by probably saying I had never had an ambition to be a peer, and the first thing that people ask you is what do you do?

Speaker 1: 1:25

Which is always hard to define because it feels like you're given a role that you may not know exactly how to do it. You don't know how the house of lord works because obviously you probably haven't spent much time in the house of lords and it's off you go. But you're there for a reason and we can get into a bit of that. But generally the reason is about what you've done, maybe in the rest of your life, and you're there to bring your experience, your perspective, to the debate of some very important policy, laws, legislation, development that will affect everyone in this country. So there's a huge amount of responsibility and you absolutely feel that in the historic chamber of the House of Lords and I think also, as everybody tells you this, because when you do come in, it's such a warm welcome from all sides of the house that you think, okay, take your time, understand how this place operates, learn, listen and then start to work out how you can contribute based on what you've done in your life.

Speaker 2: 2:40

And, as a member of the house of Lords, how do you make that contribution? What is your influence, if you like, on the policies, the politics, the things that come out of government?

Speaker 1: 2:52

It's a really good question, mark, because a lot of people actually the first question you do get asked when you're going into the House of Lords is so what do?

Speaker 1: 3:00

you do and in fact, one of the things I volunteer to do is learn with the lords and what that is. We go to schools. I visit schools and explain to kids at school what we do. So what do we do? There are laws, bills that are developed, draft laws that a government may promise to do as part of their manifesto when they're elected or during during the course of a parliament. Things come up that new laws are required for, such as innovation or you know, loopholes or things where people are getting taken advantage of, and we need to address that through a legal process. But good laws and good bills take a lot of scrutiny because it's sometimes, you know, it can be quite easy to say, well, that's a bad thing, that shouldn't happen, let's stop that. But there are potential undefined consequences of doing that and things can get complicated and there can be two or three different arguments pro and against and more.

Speaker 1: 4:03

I'm simplifying to make a point. So the process of developing legislation takes its time. It goes through the House of Commons, it comes to the House of Lords. The House of Lords then takes a really robust look at it and we amend, we look at debating, we scrutinise a bill very thoroughly. Now I'm not saying that the Commons don't, but the Commons is where the politics happens. In big P politics those people are elected to represent constituencies.

Speaker 1: 4:39

There's that age-old question about the House of Lords not being elected. But because we're not, we actually have more time and we're appointed for life and there are heredities as well but we have more time to just scrutinise the legislation, to actually sit there and go. Does this make sense? What would be the consequence of that and hear all views from people with different experiences? I think I may not be doing it justice, but there is a very beautiful thing about how the House of Lords operates.

Speaker 1: 5:10

I don't think it's probably done enough to explain to people how it works, why it does it in those ways, why we probably deliver two thirds of the amendments to bills that are done to bills because of the process that we undertake in committee, in debate, to adjust to make our case, why things should either work in the way that they are or not, as the case may be, and also it takes the heat out of the debate. It is less political. We as individuals are not seeking to be elected, so we are not looking to keep a constituency of voters happy. Our job is to represent a view based on our expertise.

Speaker 1: 5:51

Now, yes, there are party cohorts, you know, there is the government benches, the opposition, the Liberal Democrats and the cross benches and the independents as well, but we are still very strong-minded, experienced individuals who debate and argue politely, and that's with a big p. The politeness and the eloquence of the debates is something that has absolutely, you know, enthralled me since being then, and you, you want to rise to that as well yourself. But that's the purpose of the House of Lords to improve, review legislation and make good laws that eventually come and help the country.

Speaker 2: 6:31

Because I think one of the things that I'm super impressed, when you look at the two houses, there is almost like a different set of engagement rules, almost. You know. You all have a chance to speak, you know about a subject you're passionate about. My concern is that the House of Commons is more generalist, but the House of Lords has the time and the expertise to look at things in a lot more detail. Is that how you see?

Speaker 1: 6:54

it. It is. You're spot on.

Speaker 1: 6:56

I wouldn't say the House of Commons is generous, they are the politicians, and generous politicians. They can't be experts on all policy areas because that's not their role and they've been elected to be politicians, whereas we've been appointed to bring our expertise and our experience to the debates. Now, the other thing is that even in the House of Lords, we won't be the experts on everything. Is that even in the House of Lords, we won't be the experts on everything.

Speaker 1: 7:28

And something that you recognise very early on is that I'm sitting in a chamber with some very, very noble peers and baronesses who have done some amazing things in their careers, and there's no way that I'm going to stand up and talk about, I don't know, fertility with Lord Winston, who is the godfather of fertility, you know, in that debate. That's his arena and there are peers who worked in that arena who debate those things more knowledgeably than I will. But when there's a debate on, say something around technology, particularly the technology in the last 20 years, particularly the technology in the last 20 years supercomputing, the application of information technology or AI these are areas that I personally have spent decades in and I feel I can speak on and even express, maybe, a direction of travel or amendments or challenge to what's being discussed, based on what I understand about that. That's where you feel you add value, that's where you feel you can really put input into both the debate and into the direction of travel on policy and law.

Speaker 2: 8:35

Now you're very passionate about technology and AI. Obviously, there's been a lot of development in the last few years. What's happening in Parliament and where do you think this country is really going to benefit from AI?

Speaker 1: 8:47

So those are two really big questions, because you asked what's happening in Parliament and then what's happening in the country. And at this point it may feel like there's a bit of a dichotomy between the two things, because you're a businessman, you're an entrepreneur in this sector and I think you can see like I can see as someone who's been in industry the opportunity, the success, the growth, the skills, the demand, the requirements, the unfulfilled potential of what could be done in this country in not just utilising AI but developing AI and enabling British AI businesses to really succeed. That's what's happening in the country. What's happening in Parliament is that there's a lot of questions about AI. I think the government has kind of quite rightly seen an opportunity to transform parts of the public sector by applying AI. You know it's not that simple, but that's their view and I think that's right To do. That is going to be a very complex agenda and even if we just say, even if we just took out, say, the NHS as one big thing that could be potentially AI utilized in various forms of it, well, procurement, the right kind of organizations, do we go to the same big global firms? How do we give the opportunities to others, the procurement of it. That's a government challenge in one way. So how does the government utilize this new technology appropriately in the public sector, in public service delivery, in public sector transformation? Discuss.

Speaker 1: 10:30

The second thing for government is about okay, where's the regulatory conversation about this? What needs to happen about providing the right kind of guardrails? We can all hear that there will be, and there are challenges around AI, it's implementation, it's usage, deep fakes, taking advantage of people, data, ip protection, etc. Etc. There's a lot, but there's a huge amount of opportunity as well that needs to be balanced out in terms of making sure that we enable UK PLC to get ahead in what I've been saying a lot, and others as well, is a global AI race, because those countries that do take a lead invest in developing their own infrastructure, and that means energy, that means skills, that means developing the right kind of ecosystems. They will have an advantage. They will have an advantage in the future of this technology and how it's applied and the benefits they get from it. But then the third thing you've got, okay, public sector transformation. What do we do about regulation? And then the third thing is then making that happen, and that's where you get into things like the ai opportunity action plan that the government put out at the beginning of this year to help ai become adopted across the piece various innovations and actions that were all agreed by government, but we're looking to see progress on that.

Speaker 1: 11:57

Now. There's the AI growth zones, which I'm sure we're going to talk about here in Doncaster. Doncaster has a submission for that. You know that's important. How do they succeed around the country and what's the government's role in those and what's the role of the private sector and businesses in those? So you've got all of these things happening and Parliament and politicians and policymakers are playing a large part in that. But I think in all of those areas we must have the voice of business and industry. It's critical that it isn't sort of done to industry, it's done with industry, in partnership with industry and to a certain degree of done to industry. It's done with industry, in partnership with industry and, to a certain degree, led by industry. Because you know I don't mean to coin a phrase but industry knows best sometimes in terms of how a technology can be applied in business. Yes, the politicians and the public sector need to make sure that it's done in the right way for the public sector.

Speaker 2: 12:52

So we're here in Doncaster, the home of automated analytics. Why Doncaster? Why are you here?

Speaker 1: 12:57

Well, obviously you know, Mark, you're a force of nature. I've christened you, Mr Doncaster.

Speaker 2: 13:03

You did actually. Yeah, I did, I did. It's your fault.

Speaker 1: 13:06

It is my fault but, to be honest, the more I've christen right name and I hope it sticks because, well, look, I've always been intrigued by the development of ecosystems and technology. Now that sounds like a really sort of throwaway. I've really been intrigued. But actually in my career I had the privilege of working at City Hall for Mayor Boris Johnson and I went there in 2008 and I ran the transport brief for the mayor, which is the biggest brief that the mayor has two-thirds of his agenda and I'd spent a decade in the technology sector working a lot of different activities and projects. We'll touch on that.

Speaker 1: 13:44

But there was a thread running through all these activities and that was the emergence of IT, as we used to call it, in the 90s and then in the noughties, and information technology, and then software and then half hardware and PCs, and that evolution that was happening which was transforming business, retail and, to a certain degree, public sector. But something interesting happened in the late noughties where in the part of East London, we saw an ecosystem developed which was at that point called the Silicon Roundabout but became Tech City, and at that point I set up and I did convince the man he allowed me to set up the first office for Digital London because I felt we needed to talk about and help support what was happening, which was entrepreneurs meeting creatives, bringing together innovation around software and data. And this kind of cauldron of activity was the first startup ecosystem that was happening. And not only that, that was attracting interest from larger global firms to say, oh, we're interested in these ecosystems, maybe we'll sort of coexist with them, maybe we'll invest and set up our HQs, so businesses like Google and Facebook, as they were known then MetaNow, were sort of attracted by those. If we were speaking the right language of technology in the future, they were interested and I thought that has been really fascinating over the last 15 years and I've actually had to travel around the UK a lot and apologise Because you know, as we were working in London and I was quite London-focused at that point, we called it Tech City.

Speaker 1: 15:28

Little did we know that maybe there would be other cities around the UK that would also have ecosystems that will develop, like Edinburgh or Leeds or Newcastle, and these ecosystems over the last 10, 15 years, particularly I should say in the last five years, a lot more have developed around the UK and I think these things are critical because A they have a certain amount of autonomy, local areas take a lead because A they have a certain amount of autonomy, local areas take a lead, a mayoralty, local politicians get involved, local businesses get involved, local universities, higher education, and you get people coming together to help develop the right kind of environment for entrepreneurs and innovators to succeed. And that is brilliant. And I can see that happening here in Doncaster as well. I can see what you're doing, other businesses are doing, the mayor here is doing, the council is doing, and that's exciting.

Speaker 1: 16:22

And we've seen with the development of the Gateway One. That is the physical manifestation of change, that tells you these things are happening, and I think Doncaster is going to change extensively in the next couple of years. And it's not just businesses that are sort of you know in Doncaster, businesses like yours operate on a local level, on a national level and on an international level. And that's the beauty of tech businesses that they can scale really rapidly when they have the right product and hit the right market and they get the right skills. And really that's the success story that we really want to see, because I think the one thing we all know we want in the UK is business growth and I firmly believe that the tech sector, especially that kind of growth scale-up sector, is undercooked in the UK and we need to help support that happen in the next few years to really generate growth, skills, jobs, boost the economy all the things that we want to see.

Speaker 2: 17:23

I mean you've been super supportive in Doncaster's application for an hour growth zone things that I you know when I was doing the research for application. Just the gap in terms of the average weekly pay that something like Doncaster gets, even compared to national average, is well below. I think it's many thousands different. What do you think an AI growth zone would bring Doncaster?

Speaker 1: 17:48

It helps people recognize that they have the opportunity to be successful and follow their passion in an area that they want to live in.

Speaker 1: 18:00

Yes, I can talk about businesses and politics and all that, but actually a huge part of it.

Speaker 1: 18:05

Look, we've all been through this over the last five or ten years.

Speaker 1: 18:08

I won't recap why, but quality of life the place you want to live in is equally, if not more, important than the place you want to live in, is equally, if not more, important than the place you want to work in. So we've had this kind of city, city based or geographical based environments are hugely important and that's why you need both sides of that coin. You need the physical manifestation, the investment in services whether that that be housing, whether that be transport, whether that be the public realm that reflect the success or actually help manifest the success that businesses can bring by bringing their businesses and their investment to an area. So all of these dynamics have to happen at the same time and where I can see that everyone's leaning in from those angles to do that, that's where you think, yeah, that's where you want to help and support and help make that happen now I just want to dial back a bit to your 25 years in in industry, and I don't know if everybody knows this, but you were integral in the launch of the, the oyster card.

Speaker 2: 19:11

uh, on on an underground and and jason, who runs our US business, is astounded that he can pay for his tube ride now on his swipe card or on his chip and pin, and you can't do that in America. That must have been one hell of a project to work on.

Speaker 1: 19:27

It was, and I have to say there were a lot of us who worked on that program. It was actually a PFI, a private finance initiative called prestige, and I spent almost three years on the program and I remember that the contract itself was all about revenue protection. If you remember, way back in the dark old days people would just walk in and out of a tube station and maybe you bought a ticket and maybe there was someone sitting in a booth at the other end, a ticket inspector that may inspect it, but I think something like 60 70 percent of revenue just didn't get captured. So the project was about installing the gate line infrastructure architecture systems, simplifying probably one of the most complex ticketing systems in the world. London underground had, at that point and right at the end of the contract, said something about if you could do all of that, you could deliver something called NTM, new ticketing media, and I was relatively early in my career, but I'd been on this program for a couple of years and I was asked look, can you look at this bit of it and work with the team to help shape it and help be part of the team that delivers it? And look, that was.

Speaker 1: 20:36

We launched the Oyster card in 2003. And remember, for a year we ran it in shadow running because we were worried. We were worried it was going to be such a big change for people. It was contactless technology. It was trust the system. You wouldn't see, you know what's going on, money moving invisibly, all new concepts, and you needed to have trust. People needed to trust that this was going to work, so we needed to make sure that it would work. So there was a lot of assurance, a lot of work done to make sure that that system was as fail-safe as it could be and those transactions were accurate, that the reconciliation worked. Everything behind it would be ideal.

Speaker 1: 21:26

But what it did for me and that's why I have this kind of two sides of a coin, where I spent a lot of my career working in transport, but actually it was technology beneath the transport veneer and one of the reasons I personally think back then a lot of projects failed was because they'd be, they'd try to implement the project through a transport methodology of heavy engineering, try to implement the project through a transport methodology of heavy engineering, whereas actually what we were dealing with was, or needed to was, dealing with software, engineering, systems, architecture, people who do that kind of activity, but we were shoehorning them into a heavy engineering environment. It didn't. That was, and I, as a consultant, I was put on a number of projects where I'd see these problems or these projects not working and sit with people to understand why. And I reflect back on this and I see that there was a real problem in the approach that we were taking to deliver and we've gone past it Now. We all understand technology projects have to be managed differently Still some don't work, but you know that's a different story. Projects have to be managed differently Still some don't work, but you know that's a different story. So, yeah, it was.

Speaker 1: 22:36

It was hugely seminal in terms of my career, my understanding For London. It was iconic and I feel very proud to have played a small part in some way in delivering it. And then, ever since then, I kept an eye on, okay, how does technology play out? And in fact that was why, at City Hall, I brought the technology office to the front, the digital office for London, because I said it was time for tech to step out of the shadows, to be front and centre and people to be aware that this was what was driving the innovation and the change. And then, how do we apply that tech to the problems that we're looking at, whether that be in transport, whether that be in other policy areas, whether that be in retail, whatever it was, it's a tech revolution.

Speaker 2: 23:19

It's interesting. So, when I look at your career, how do you actually get into the mayoral office in the first place? Because it's not exactly something you immediately think of. Right, I'm going to go there.

Speaker 1: 23:37

No, no Again. You know, much like getting into the house of lords. I wasn't thinking of joining city hall but I think, look, I became politically active. Look, I'm a conservative peer. I've always been a conservative. I've stood in a general election. In 2005 I stood in local council seats, unsuccessfully.

Speaker 1: 23:49

I was asked to be the London mayoral candidate, once unsuccessful on the long list, I think. The politics of it for me were obviously there were certain values that I have that aligned with the Conservative Party, but actually what I saw was a need for change through the 90s that you know. And there was a huge amount of work that a new labor government tried to undertake. That was very positive, um, through things like ppps and pfis trying to finance big infrastructure change in the public sector. But a lot of it didn't succeed and there was a lot of waste and a lot of failure and that.

Speaker 1: 24:31

And that was what drove me to become more politically active, because I wanted to address some of that. I'd been on the coalface working on these programs and projects and I wanted to say, hey look, this isn't working because and that got me more and more involved and eventually led to working on the Merrill campaign. I'd worked on previous Merrill campaigns in London and then on Boris Merrill campaign. I'd worked on previous Merrill campaigns in London and then on Boris Johnson's campaign and then, when he won the Merrill, he asked me to come and work for him at City Hall.

Speaker 2: 25:00

Brilliant, what a great story. So how do you go from City Hall to being a peer?

Speaker 1: 25:06

Yeah, well, look. Firstly, I think I've got to say working at City Hall was such a privilege because I am a born and bred Londoner and I got to work on things that changed the lives of other Londoners, and that includes family friends. You made interventions, whether it was getting the cycle hire scheme up and running, whether it was making sure more trees were planted, whether it was getting the funding and working on the comprehensive spending review that led to getting things like Crossrail in, you know, changing layouts of roads that they were safer, getting the new bus for London on the streets, and and, and, and, and. You could do things that made the city better, and I feel so proud of being part of a team, especially between 2008 and 2012 when I was there, and also, dare I say, you know, making the city ready for the Olympics. I was on the Olympic Paralympic Transport Board. That was a hell of a job with many, many, many people working on that. So there was a lot of work involved. Getting the infrastructure in for electric vehicles. We started that. So I could go on about and I felt so passionate about it.

Speaker 1: 26:24

But after I'd sort of finished in 2012, I wanted to go back into industry and take some of what I understood the public sector required and help industry to provide that to the public sector. That's actually why I went back into industry and so I spent another 10 years and actually in international global businesses working on how do we not just develop the innovation? I'm not the techie in the room. Let me be absolutely clear, if you hadn't guessed already. I'm the communicator. I'm the guy who's trying to explain both sides, to the techies as well and to the customer, the public sector.

Speaker 1: 27:04

How do you bring requirements and innovation together to get the right solution? Because that's generally where you tend to find there's a problem. Right, people aren't talking the same language. Why would they be? They come from different worlds. You need to find a way of accurately bringing this together to be successful in what you're trying to deliver, and that's what I tried to do. So I did that and worked in a lot of those 10 years in a big global business called Atos, and then my former boss, who had been prime minister for a while, said you know, you should go into the House of Lords, and it's as I said. It wasn't something I'd always been thinking oh yeah, that'd be nice. You don't live your life thinking you're going to go into the House of Lords. But I thought, ok, maybe this is another phase, to sort of now bring that experience to, as we were talking about.

Speaker 2: 28:02

So you're in the House of Lords, as you say, it's for life, as it were. What's next for you?

Speaker 1: 28:10

I think, having spent these first couple of years and people say to you when you get into the House of Lords, how long will it take for me to sort of get my head around all this? Oh, at least a few years. And you're like, a few years, surely a few months, but no, we have time. But there is a lot to learn. But I think the future the more I think about it. And I did actually one of the things you do.

Speaker 1: 28:31

you do your maiden speech and your maiden speech the clue's in the title it's the first speech you do, but until you do that speech you're not allowed to speak in the chamber, so you're muted now, that's quite a relief, actually, because it means you the pressure's off, you can sit there and just listen and, as I said, I've kind of I was sitting there listening and, yes, there are amazingly experienced and learned fellow peers and people who've done some amazing things in their careers and their lives. But when the subject turns to technology or where technology is going and things like AI, but also frontier tech like blockchain or IoT or supercomputing, or where we're going to go with quantum, there aren't that many people who have worked in those sectors and we're relying on some people briefing. So that's where I started to think hold on, actually, I can bring something to this debate because that's where I have spent my career. So I look forward and I said this in my maiden speech that I do personally believe that the world has changed because of the way, yes, technology is being delivered. Yes, the global firms and I don't mean the big tech firms as everyone knows them, like the Apples, the Googles and all those guys. I mean the tech firms like the ones I was working in, the sort of and I don't want to name them because I'm not sponsored by any of them anymore but the big firms that supply the infrastructure, what I call the gubbins, the cybersecurity elements, the hosting, the hyperscalers, the cloud providers, the people who are sort of providing the data centers. This infrastructure is going to be critical critical and these firms are global and we could decide laws in Parliament.

Speaker 1: 30:30

But I know, having worked in a global business, that I looked across a number of global regions. I'd work where I thought it was suited by corporate interests. So I think politicians and parliaments have to understand more so about what industry's corporate interests are and help influence industry as much as say well, we're going to define a law here and you have to abide by it, because some of these guys will just be like, well, we can operate in different environments. So I don't see that as a threat. I think you see that as a partnership, because industry is always looking to work in partnership. It's just. I think we have to be more proactive as parliamentarians to work with industry, not expect it to just listen to us. In fact, I think we have to become super influencers as parliamentarians and go out and influence industry, understanding what they want, to help make better policies and laws for the future.

Speaker 2: 31:24

It's a really interesting point you say about super influencers. I think that's absolutely right. I mean, peter Carl Riese got criticised for going and seeing tech companies and taking on board their views and seeking out what they thought. Where do you see the landscapes going to go over the next 10 years for not only AI but technology development?

Speaker 1: 31:46

Well, this is where I'm now at that interesting point in both career and life Mark, where you kind of look back as much as you look forward and I say that because you know I've notched up a half century recently I'm not out, but looking back and we touched on things like the Oyster card and worked on new signaling systems for European train management and digital money and various things that have been coming, and EVs and applications and smartphones, and we've seen these dawn of the internet and the web and all of that stuff happen in the last 25 years. Now, that was all frontier technology. We have pretty much all of us, a lot of us, have lived through some phases of that. And now I look forward and I'm thinking there's a whole heap of more frontier technology coming and, yes, there's AI, but there's digital money, which includes things like stable coins, central bank, digital currencies, digital pound and, yes, crypto, but also other things like autonomous vehicles, flying cars, drone technology massive amounts of frontier tech that, yet again, is going to redefine business models, public sector services, the way we live our lives.

Speaker 1: 33:14

Frontier tech will keep coming and I think that's where I would like to focus because hopefully I can lean on my experience of the last quarter of a century, in having been in some of those arenas and learned some lessons to apply to as we come up against these changes and help take the best out of those as they come, and fundamentally, I think it's just going to be very exciting. Yes, there will be challenges, yes, there will be come and fundamentally, I think it's just going to be very exciting. Yes, there will be challenges, yes, there will be risks and yes, there will be a need for us to make sure it's done in an appropriate way for the public, but I still think it's going to be really exciting.

Speaker 2: 33:51

Hopefully. Now what's interesting? Just delving into your personal life. You are a Spurs fan. Not another one how does it feel as a spurs fan to win a trophy in 40 years?

Speaker 1: 34:05

emotional, if not 40 years. We won, I was. We won the league cup in 99. So you know well, just you know, as a spurs fan, I know my history, I go, I go regularly I'm a season ticket holder.

Speaker 2: 34:16

It's not the european cup that we won 82, is it yeah?

Speaker 1: 34:19

yeah, yeah, yeah, we did the double. We were the first team. Anyway, look but I think, look, football is amazing. Now it's become such a global business. It's such a business.

Speaker 2: 34:32

It's been an interesting time for you because, as a Spurs fan, you won Europe. You then sacked your manager, which I thought was a very smart move. You know, sack the only manager that's brought you a trophy in 40 years or however long it is, but you know you've hired Brentford's manager. What do you think the new season is going to bring you? I'm really positive.

Speaker 1: 34:50

I think, look, andrew Postacoglu is a great man. There is no question His style and actually we talk about business you know leadership styles he had. He has and has had a fantastic effect on every club he has been to through his sheer force of personality and his style, and it had an effect at Tottenham. But there were some consequences. Finishing 17th in the league was not ideal. You know, in business you couldn't, you couldn't handle that, you know. So I think, look, the the chairman and the club made a decision about that and I, you know I can completely understand why.

Speaker 1: 35:30

Thomas Frank, if there's one thing I say a premier, a top Premier League club, needs to do, is if they're going to get a new manager. If you can get one who's already been successful in the Premier League, that really helps. Because whenever you're bringing again a business analogy, if you're bringing someone in completely from the outside into your business to operate at a senior level and they've never worked in that type of sector or business before, chances of success diminish somewhat. Someone who's been in that business or around that business and you bring them in, chances are slightly higher. So hiring another Premier League manager who's been successful, I think is a very smart, wise move.

Speaker 1: 36:06

It worked when we hired Harry Redknapp. It worked really well when we hired Maurizio Pochettino and I hope it's going to work even better with Thomas Frank. So I'm very positive about the season and I think that's what we've got to take forward in terms of. You know, we talk about where businesses are. Let's get more people who understand business as we go through this massive change around transformation in the business environment because of technology, be involved in the debate. Have people like yourself, other entrepreneurs, maybe someone with my kind of hybrid background of having been in industry be more involved in helping shape and meet the challenges that we're going to face to get both procurement, implementation, adoption these are the pillars that make success happen, I think what's interesting about spurs is you are a very I think you're a very well-run club, very profitable club.

Speaker 2: 36:56

you know what uh don't leave he has done in terms of bringing the NFL? I think it's Formula One karting.

Speaker 1: 37:02

There is yes, it's the football, there's the concerts, it really is a leisure proposition rather than just being a football team.

Speaker 2: 37:10

Do you think some of the football side of Spurs has been lost for the sake of making money from other sports?

Speaker 1: 37:22

Spurs has been lost for the sake of making money from other sports. Look, I I have. I'm hugely complimentary of the chairman of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club for what he has achieved. As a businessman right, you can't deny what he has done. And there are other clubs who were sort of in our were in the same group as us, that are not as financially successful Aston Villa you know, but I think you know football success has to mirror financial success for the fans.

Speaker 1: 37:52

So football success has to happen and then fans get excited. If it starts to become more about other successes, like just purely commercial successes, then the football fans are kind of left wondering what's going on. But I think it's a challenge for all clubs. I do see some clubs doing it a lot better. A club like Liverpool you've got to envy, not just because of the success they seem to keep having, but the way that they do it in their commercial approach to it. Now there are different ownerships models. We've got to say we're not comparing apples with apples here, because each club has a different type of ownership. We are seeing football and we're going to get into kind of business again being becoming more dominated by US ownership models.

Speaker 1: 38:31

There's many reasons for that. You know they're seeing the Premier League as a global product. They're seeing more potential, money and revenue from it as a global product. And what does that mean for the average fan in the UK?

Speaker 1: 38:44

Because I spoke we had the football governance bill go through recently and I spoke in a few of those debates very much as a football fan saying without the fans the product will get diminished. Remember in COVID when you know Premier League still played but it was heartless, soulless, because you heard the thud of a football boot on ball but there was no cheer, there was no crowd and then they had to start piping in the sound effects to kind of generate like this is, but the players couldn't react. The fans play a fundamental symbiotic relationship with the success of the football product and I think clubs, those clubs who remember that and keep that integral to a football club, will hopefully continue to succeed in what they're trying to do. Others, who maybe dilute that still successful and talk about being successful. But yes, let's keep an eye on the football primary and then everything else follows.

Speaker 2: 39:43

I think with Daniel Levy, you have got a very, very good chairman. I think his negotiation skills are great. I always saw Brexit should have been an apolitical process and get Daniel Levy in to negotiate it for us. I think he could have got us a much better deal. But it's interesting because obviously your neighbours are Arsenal and who Exactly who are?

Speaker 1: 40:01

they Never heard of them.

Speaker 2: 40:02

I mean Aston Villa just beat them for fun generally. In fact, I was at the first game at the Emirates Stadium that was ever played Premier League game and it was Aston Villa and we beat them. I think it was 2-1 or 3-1 at the time. But obviously in our manager Aston Villa's current manager is an ex-Arsen manager. Why didn't he work at Arsenal and why has he worked at Aston Villa? Is that due to the ownership? Do you think it's less pressure? Why has he worked so well at Aston Villa?

Speaker 1: 40:29

Look there are so many answers to that question because I think again, I do a lot of looking at football in business. Some people work in some businesses. They don't work in others. It can be the timing you came in the situation because of when you came in, the type of pressure you felt, all the expectations that were on you and a myriad of other dynamics play a part. And Unai Emery, when he went to Arsenal, was on a high and as a lot expected big club sort of. But then you know he'd been so successful I don't know how many times he'd won the Europa League I think four or five times, maybe more and then it didn't work out there. He's gone away. He's come back into Villa with less expectations, let's be honest, and Villa are not at the same expectation. They're not expected to challenge for the league every season. So and it's the same with players we see some big transfers happen where players playing brilliantly at some club, big transfer fee paid, come to a bigger club and really struggle so as much as the psychological side of it, because the skills haven't changed. They've still got the talent and the skills and the ability and the knowledge as a manager or whatever it is.

Speaker 1: 41:42

But the real test is when you're under real pressure. The more pressure that increases tests whether you will succeed. And you know people find it hard to do. You find in the political environment, the the, the more pressure uh you get from being in a political role. You may be capable of doing things, and fear can.

Speaker 1: 42:01

But that pressure does take its toll on individuals and that's why I know there's no violins played for politicians or or secretaries of state or the prime minister, whoever it may be. But those individuals take a lot of pressure on on themselves and their families and I haven't had one of those jobs, but I have had a job with a reasonable amount of pressure on themselves and their families. And I haven't had one of those jobs, but I have had a job with a reasonable amount of pressure, sitting next to Mayor of London and I definitely felt that pressure. But you know it's a test of you as an individual, it's a test of your commitment and it's a test of saying roll your sleeves up and see what you can do, but also knowing when you want to step away and take your time for the best for yourself as well, because nobody needs to sort of push themselves beyond that limit.

Speaker 2: 42:49

As an Aston Villa fan, absolutely it's in Unai. We trust I think is how we see. He's been the best manager we've had for some time.

Speaker 1: 42:55

I just wanted to say that, because every team, when their manager is doing well, they love them. And once, once I got into a lift with a certain Harry Redknapp, and at that point he was Tottenham manager. So obviously I was like, and for once words failed me and it was him. He's quite a tall man, he was a big guyry redknapp, and I just turned to him. I said, mr redknapp, you're like god to me, and I couldn't control myself. I don't know what was, uh, I don't know what was coming out of my mouth, and he just looked at me. He said only while we're winning, son, only while we're winning. How true was that?

Speaker 2: 43:35

the doors opened, he ran out of the lift I bet he did.

Speaker 2: 43:39

But talking about that personal pressure, it's a real interesting point you bring up because I think sometimes we forget people are human beings at the end of the day and you know we recently had the images of the Chancellor tearful in the Commons, which you know is that invasion of privacy. What else was going on? I think sometimes people forget the struggles that may be going on in someone's life. But the point you make about pressure and almost like surviving the pressure as a politician, that really must be there because you really are defining the future of the country you are.

Speaker 1: 44:18

And I think, firstly, firstly, you said survive.

Speaker 1: 44:21

Your first job is to survive, the second job is to then thrive. Okay, you've got, and and obviously you've decided to put yourself in that position, otherwise you wouldn't be there so you've got to take some personal responsibility for being there. But you do feel that level of responsibility for whatever job you're doing in policy, even just as a humble backbencher in the opposition benches in in the house of lords anytime and obviously I'm still rather new to it that I stand up to speak in that chamber I feel the weight of that responsibility of you know what I'm saying could matter. Hopefully it doesn't matter, but also it's going to be recorded in hansard, other people are listening to it. It could influence, it may have some impact and you have to understand and learn that responsibility. But I think and again, you know politicians, we all are there to criticise every politician, and some rightly so. But yes, it's a hard job. It's a difficult job but if you get it right, it's an amazingly satisfying job to improve the lives of your fellow citizen.

Speaker 2: 45:35

Now I know you're a big family man. You've got two great boys. Are they going to become Spurs players? What's the plan for them for?

Speaker 1: 45:42

the next five years. Well, they're definitely fans, but they haven't had a choice yet, because I've got to get them the kit. But I think that's great.

Speaker 2: 45:51

I am a third-generation Aston Villa fan. My kids are fourth-generation. My granddaughter she's not even one and she's got a Villa kit. She's fifth generation. I said Villa and I like that tradition of your family sticking with the same team and supporting and I think you know the parents that are giving their kids choices are wrong, but have you actually taken your boys to a Spurs game?

Speaker 1: 46:12

I have the older one has been to quite a few games already because he's almost seven, so you know you can go in, and actually it's quite something to walk into a 60,000 seater stadium and hear that noise. So I think he went just after he was almost six initially. So over the last year he's been to a few matches. The younger one might start taking this season. He has felt, you know, you can imagine, as we leave, he's, I'm not going to the game. Daddy.

Speaker 2: 46:42

Yeah, elder brother goes, yeah yeah, it's funny, she said, because it is, I think it is a little bit dawn. So I, I took my son, josh, he's, he's, he's adopted. Yeah, um, and he's, he's autistic, and I was worried that he would struggle with the crowd and the noise. Yeah, my brother and I I took him, um, only, well, it was, it was just literally this season and it was actually unbelievably emotional for me because, one, I didn't think I'd get the chance to take my son to a game because, you know, I had to adopt at the end of the day.

Speaker 2: 47:10

But, second thing, I didn't know if he was going to be able to cope with it. He absolutely loved it and it was one of those things where I thought I wish I'd taken him sooner. And we got the obligatory shirt before the game and we got it numbered and at halftime he said Dad, dad, can I go and put my shirt on? And honestly, it was an amazing moment to take my son somewhere, to the toilet it's got changed, walked back and the pride he had of walking back in wearing his Villa shirt, which I'm sure both of your sons you'll get the opportunity to sometimes. You know when we as grown-ups get a bit too fixated sometimes on winning or losing.

Speaker 1: 47:46

Sometimes it's just the experience, the environment, the passion, yes, and also the being with, with dad or mom yes, and and look, you know we've spoken about a lot of things in life, but the emotion, the bonds, um, what life's about? Sharing that you know. And we've got young children and you know you think about what is it that's important to your life? Obviously, most people. If you've got a young child or if you've got children, your children tend to be the priority, at least most of the time. And you know, you know, as a parent, you just kind of want to make them happy or ensure that they are happy. Now, whether that's being Villa supporters or Spurs supporters, discuss Happy being a Villa fan, I'm sure. Well, last season, yes, but only till the end, was there a happy Spurs fan? But you know, I think those special moments, maybe when we were growing up were a bit rarer. You know, maybe when we were growing up were a bit rarer. You know, life was made for some people and it is hard life for people. There are a lot of challenges out there. So I also look at it through the, the privilege of being able to do that with my kids, uh, and I know a lot of people can't, uh, and maybe you go to, you know, your local club and you can go to the other places, but I think it's very. I think in the world we live in, sometimes the acceptance of just I can do this, so I do try and play in a bit of. You know, there's a lot of people who can't do this, who can't go, but they're a bit young for that. Yeah, but me myself, you know, I tried because actually politics is a unique environment for keeping and it should keep your feet on the ground Because actually, and when I was at City Hall, yes, I could tell you all these things, mark, that I was trying to do and were successful in what we tried to achieve, but I'd say the vast majority of the time was spent dealing with the problems, the struggles that people were having the inability to pay to go to interviews, to use public transport, to get the, the right services, to get access and ability to feel that they were being heard, that something had gone wrong.

Speaker 1: 49:47

You know all that. Those problems are what politicians spend their time dealing with. People see the tip of the iceberg, of the cutting the ribbon, the opening, and there's the big meetings, there's a lot of other stuff, and I think it's the same in life. We get those special moments. People see the tip of the iceberg, of the cutting the ribbon, the opening and the big meetings. There's a lot of other stuff and I think it's the same in life. We get those special moments where we can take our kids, but there's a lot of people dealing with those and you try to keep the balance in your mind, that there are a lot of things that we can still work on to improve, not just for ourselves, but everyone else as well. Yeah, no.

Speaker 2: 50:15

I totally agree. So it's going to wrap up this episode, but I've got one more question to ask you. So it's the one thing that no one knows about you that you can share with us today.

Speaker 1: 50:26

I've only ever won one election that I stood in.

Speaker 2: 50:31

Only one.

Speaker 1: 50:31

Yeah, I won the election to be the social officer at my university in my second year.

Speaker 2: 50:40

What a great election to win, right it was which university?

Speaker 1: 50:44

I was at University College London and the reason I won and I've realised the only way to win an election I stood unopposed 63 votes.

Speaker 2: 50:53

If that's a lesson that any aspiring politician or anybody that wants to get voted in takes from this podcast is actually just stand for something where you're unopposed and you're sure to get in. You know that's great advice. Lord Ranger Colvitt, thank you, as always. One for your support and your advice and your help to me personally. Two for for what you know, the support you're giving to Dungast. We greatly appreciate it and thanks very much for coming on. Thank you.