SPEAKER_00: 0:00

So you're now at uh at TFP. Is it the same challenge, a different challenge than what you had at Helping Hands? Because you know, on the one stage you you're looking at care. The other stage it's it's now about actually providing people with with the opportunity to have a baby that might not be able to naturally. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 0:15

I think it's very different, but there are a lot of similarities. Often our patients have been through quite a lot up until the point that they come and talk to us. What's the future hold for Mark Bevan?

SPEAKER_00: 0:27

What are you going to do next?

SPEAKER_01: 0:28

Well, nobody knows what the future holds, but um I am really, really happy. What's the one thing that people wouldn't know about? Most people don't know that I actually run a scuba diving club in Birmingham. Um I've been um chairman of the BUEC now for this will be my fifth term. Working in the fertility sector is incredibly rewarding. Everything from seeing the patients come out when they've you know had their first scan with a successful pregnancy to um meeting some of those babies when they bring them into reception after they've had the success.

SPEAKER_00: 0:59

Hi, and welcome to this episode of the Automated Analytics Podcast. Today I've got the chance to sit down with Mark Bevin. He's been in marketing for 15 years, has worked for brands like NPower, Phones for You, and TFP Fertility. Now he is a Birmingham City fan, but don't let that put you off watching this episode because it goes into great detail about the changing Google Ads and Content 2, which Google have recently bought out. Don't forget, if you like this episode, do like and subscribe at the end. Hi, and welcome to this episode of the Automated Analytics Podcast. I'm delighted to welcome Mark Bevan to the studio. Mark has been in marketing almost as long as me. And he's also called Mark as well. So you've been in marketing for 15 years now. How has it changed? Uh how's it changed?

SPEAKER_01: 1:51

So I sort of got into marketing originally when Google Ads sort of was first coming about, um, uh was given a role managing both uh what it was Bing, Yahoo, and Google Ads for Paid Search was my first job in marketing. Um, and it was very manual. Um, I remember when uh the uh ad manager came out, which meant that you could uh do things offline and upload them, and there was lots of late nights trying to make big changes, write ads, very, very manual process. I think nowadays marketing has changed in that we now have technology, which means we can automate a lot of the things that we do, but also we leave a lot of our decision making up to algorithms more now, which at first is quite scary. Um, but I think it meant that we were able to drive much better performance and it it focused more on um the things that matter.

SPEAKER_00: 2:47

My first job, which was in 1997, uh, which was for Regal Hotels, performance marketing wasn't really a well, we didn't use that phrase at all, but it feels like it's a phrase that's come more and more into marketing, and particularly with the changes we've had. You know, you've had COVID, people are acquiring a greater performance from their marketing, and and it feels like marketing's shifted into being performance marketing.

SPEAKER_01: 3:11

I I would absolutely agree. I think um the big change that I've seen, particularly when um being approached for senior roles, is that they are looking for somebody who's got performance marketing background, but not just somebody that has uh flittered around the edges and managed agencies. They're looking for somebody that knows what they're doing, um, looking for somebody that's willing to get into the detail, but also able to strategically drive those channels in the right direction to get the outcome that's required. Um, performance marketing is now you know a massive lion's share of what markers do.

SPEAKER_00: 3:47

And and that return on advertising, um, that really has become like the key metric for performance marketeers today. It has, yeah. I mean, depending on your sector, I suppose, yeah. So you started uh 15 years ago, but you started actually with Phones for You, which uh unfortunately doesn't exist you know anymore. But I remember when I was in health clubs, we'd love hiring people from Phones for You because their training was amazing for salespeople.

SPEAKER_01: 4:14

It was, and uh, for my sins, I did start uh in the call center, straight out of university, needed a job, uh, didn't quite want to go home uh back with uh my parents, so I decided uh got managed to get this job at uh at the call center at Phones for You um in the head office, um, did that for a short period of time, decided that wasn't for me, um, and that I wanted to use the degree that I'd spent lots of money and lots of time studying. So um I um somehow ended up working uh moving over into the digital team, which at the time I think was called the online team. Um and um, you know, the the manager over there sort of said, Look, we we need somebody to come and manage our Google Ad accounts and Bing and Yahoo. And I went, Well, what are they? Didn't really know much about it. Um, and and that's sort of where I cut my cloth, really, pretty much thrown into the deep end. I was given some really good training. Um, I had, you know, really good manager at the time, and that's where I really cut my cloth, I think, in, and and fell in love, I suppose, with um the world of marketing and particularly performance marketing.

SPEAKER_00: 5:17

So you recently, obviously, last six years have moved into healthcare. So obviously it's a change from you know, like phones for you. I think you then went to NPower, and then you last six years have been in healthcare. Why the move into healthcare?

SPEAKER_01: 5:32

Well, I suppose, you know, I love my time at NPower. Um, it was fantastic, um, really great people, um, great company to work for. And the best thing was it was on my doorstep about a mile away from where I lived. So I had a really good work-life balance, which is is is invaluable, really. Um, but I think what, you know, when I left there was because of the um uh takeover uh of Empower uh by um Eon. And ultimately that that meant that was sort of my end of a my career there. Um I ended up going into um the home care sector for helping hands, and it really changed the way that I thought about my my job. Uh previously it had been about, well, yeah, I always wanted to progress, I've always wanted to learn. But then suddenly I had a product here that I became really, really passionate about. Um, and I think that's why now I can't really see myself not working in healthcare, particularly because I'm really proud to talk about it. So for me, it's being able to tell somebody what I do for a living and be really proud about the product that we offer or the service that we offer. So help in hands, it was all about, you know, helping um elderly people in their own homes, ultimately for them to stay at home what what more of a nice thing to do. Ultimately, we're a private business trying to make money, but we were doing a really nice thing and you know, to see the difference that the carers were making and to be a part of that was really important to me. And more recently moved to um TFP Fertility, um, where we help people have babies. Um, and again, for me, it's those, it's those patient stories, it's those outcomes that really drive drive me.

SPEAKER_00: 7:12

So tell me about TFP, what they do, who they are as a business. I know them, but not everybody might know them listening to this podcast.

SPEAKER_01: 7:19

So TFP Fertility Group um uh have been uh helping patients uh have uh make families for the last 35 years. Uh we have uh 11 clinics um across three countries. Um, eight of those are in the UK. Um, we have a couple in Poland and one in the Netherlands as well. Um and we have a bunch of satellite clinics as well that support them. Ultimately, we are here to help people um create families. Um but the other part of what we do as well is things like preservation, uh, and we offer um people the opportunity to donate as well and help another family. Um but yeah, so that's uh that's who TFPR.

SPEAKER_00: 8:01

And it's fascinating because I myself have been through the the IVF experience. Unfortunately, it wasn't successful. We went down the adoption route and adopted my my son Joshy. But you are literally providing you know people with the opportunity to have a family to have a baby that wouldn't naturally be able to.

SPEAKER_01: 8:19

Absolutely, and and it's amazing once I started in the role, how many um uh you know, friends and friends of friends, or you know, the guy you're sat next to or talking to at a conference suddenly will tell you everything about you know their experience. And it's incredible that you know you people don't talk about these things, and and actually suddenly, as once you work in the sector, everyone wants to tell you about their experience. So um I think you probably a lot of listeners today will will relate to that and go, Well, I've been through this and haven't really talked about it.

SPEAKER_00: 8:51

And it and it's interesting because you you were right, it it's it's very much you know experience you go through yourself with your partner. And certainly, you know, when when when I've we've spoken about it, it's amazing. You know, when when you're at school or when you're younger, you think conceiving and having a family is dead easy, it just happens. But it's not like that for everybody, is it?

SPEAKER_01: 9:10

No, and and that's not not the reality. Unfortunately, um, you know, the uh fertility rates are um uh decreasing and there are challenges around that. I think people are staying in their um that people know more females are having careers now um and are wanting to focus on those and then leaving having kids uh to to when they're a bit older, which has its challenges. Um I won't go into too much medical information about that, but um ultimately that's where you know recently we've uh um been focusing on things like preservation. So um for me um that is uh, you know, one, yes, it's another revenue stream for us, but ultimately if we can get people to preserve their eggs earlier, then they have a much better chance if they do plan to have a family in the future. Um so it's something that people should consider.

SPEAKER_00: 10:01

Just talking about helping hands for a second, I loved the the brand story that you told me because you almost envisaged a customer and would almost every decision that you made as a business was well, would it suit that customer? Is that right?

SPEAKER_01: 10:17

Yeah, so I think uh the uh the journey in the healthcare in journey in the home care sector is usually a reasonably short one because something triggers it. So it's usually mum's had a fall, something's happened, and suddenly we need help. So you go from not knowing anything about a uh a service to wanting to know as much as possible because they're this is going to be looking after somebody that means a lot to you. So what's really important uh in in the home care sector is giving people the right information, useful information in an empathetic way and make them feel like that they've got the information they need to make an informed decision.

SPEAKER_00: 11:00

So, Mark, when you're at Helping Hands, I was fascinated by almost the brand story, which we talked about, you know, performance marketing, but this is where you had essentially what you termed to me was the granny test that really drove a lot of what you delivered from a brand. Talk us through what exactly happened.

SPEAKER_01: 11:19

Uh so it was our CEO, CEO, yeah, CEO at the time that that implemented the granny test. Uh, and the granny test was basically um if you are have an idea or you want to go and do or you're going to do something or you're making a decision all the way through the business from you know right at the top all the way through to a carer on the ground. If you weren't sure about that decision that you were making, you applied the granny test, which was, would my granny be proud of this? And if the answer was no, you probably shouldn't do it. If the answer was yes, it's probably the right decision. So that was sort of the the and that meant that one, it enabled people to make decisions quickly, but also people applied that filter to it. Um, and because we worked in an organization that ultimately helped out um elderly people, it fitted really nicely with that as well.

SPEAKER_00: 12:07

So and I think that to me was a great kind of demonstration of as you say, the granny test, whether it's a customer test. You know, not every business makes decisions based on that kind of filtering process. But that's what fascinated me about your time at helping hands was was you know passing the the granny test, as it were. So just cycling forward a little bit. So you're now at TFP, and you know, I'm guessing it's it's is it the same challenge, a different challenge than what you had at helping hands? Because you know, on the one stage you you're looking at care, the other stage it's it's now about actually providing people with with the opportunity to have a baby that might not be able to naturally. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 12:46

I think it's very different, but there are a lot of similarities. Um, obviously it's the other end of life, but it is a highly emotional purchase. Um, ultimately, people people who are coming to us are looking to get help um by ultimately conceiving. Um so often our patients have been through um quite a lot uh up until the point that that they come and talk to us, and it's but it's similar in a lot of ways to what I talked about with home care is that you go from not knowing very much about a service or or or or something to wanting to know absolutely everything really, really quickly. The differences between um home care and and um what we do at TFP Fertility is that the research journey is much longer. So it can you know it can be up to six months of research before somebody gives us a call. So, you know, very different in in that respect.

SPEAKER_00: 13:39

But but also giving people a chance to have uh a baby, a family where when they haven't got that opportunity naturally. That that must be a big motivator, that must be a big driver. Oh, absolutely, yes.

SPEAKER_01: 13:51

And and I mean, you know, uh when we're in the clinics looking through the glass and seeing the guys in the labs do what they do is you know, it is it's just simply incredible. So, yes, working in the fertility sector is incredibly rewarding um for everything from seeing the patients come out when they've you know had their first scan with a successful pregnancy to um meeting some of those babies when they bring them into reception after they've had the success. And um, you know, we have the privilege of uh in marketing actually doing sort of uh patient stories as well, trying to bring those stories to life for other people. I think that's one of the things that um we've really really been focusing on the marketing team is going, how do we open the curtain for people to be able to see what actually happens? One from a patient's perspective, what actually is that journey like, but also what's happening in the labs, what's happening in the uh in the in the uh theatres, what's it like to be in a consultation, all that sort of stuff. So for me, it's an incredible privilege to work in the fertility sector. Um, and you know, I'm incredibly passionate about how we try and bring uh engaging content, but also content that makes people feel much more comfortable before they come become come into a clinic. Because as you can imagine, the first time entering a fertility clinic is probably an incredibly uh difficult thing to do. Lots of anxiety, lots of questions, not sure what to expect. And and I, like I said, feel uh feel privileged to be able to hopefully help people feel a little bit better before that happens.

SPEAKER_00: 15:20

And and I think as you say, it it's it's your marketing role is is very different because it's very much an education piece as much as it is about driving that performance. So just circling back to Google Ads, um, I mean you probably remember when it was called Google AdWords, I think it was when it first came out. Name changed. Yeah, allegedly. Allegedly.

SPEAKER_01: 15:39

I'm still calling it webmaster tools as well.

SPEAKER_00: 15:41

So you know, yes, yeah, Google console. Yeah, Google console. So what what's interesting is I remember the days when you could go into a Google Ads account or an AdWords account and make significant changes to improve the performance. But pretty much Google's stripped that back now. Is that what you're seeing?

SPEAKER_01: 16:00

So uh where they've gone from is yes, a manually um managed account. So you would adjust the bids on different keywords, you would set your ads up, you would do all of that sort of stuff. And the majority of that hasn't changed. You set up your ads, you set up your keywords, you set up your um your ad groups and your campaigns. The difference is now that first it was automated bidding, um, then we've moved into um uh things like PMAX, um, which is another type of automated bidding, but includes various different um uh ad types, uh, to you know, the new AI Max that's just released, which is which is really exciting as well. And I think the difference being is uh as somebody who was originally working on accounts when we used to manually do them, I remember the switch over to uh automated bidding, and I was saying, ah, there's no way that that that they can do it better than a human, particularly when you've got a big account and it's really complex. There's no way uh, you know, we we did the test, it beat us, we then rolled it out of the whole account, and we haven't really looked back, um, or I haven't really looked back in any account that I've managed since, really. Um, and now that we've got things like P Max, what's now more much more important in an account is not necessarily uh, you know, spending all of that time uh sort of looking at individual bids. Actually, it's about what data you feed it now, is is absolutely key. If you don't feed it the right data, you're just not gonna get the right outcome.

SPEAKER_00: 17:23

And I think that's the difference that we've seen is all about uploading those conversions. So you you've got, if you like, traditional what I would call call tracking where they're counting the calls, but you're using AI to actually understand the intent and the outcome so that you're feeding Google the right conversion that you want to drive, rather than just it's not just about a phone call, it's actually a phone call that leads to uh you know a sale at the end of the day. So with Google Ads, it's it seems very, very critical to be able to upload the right conversion. So you've got call tracking, which essentially counts the amount of calls that that you have and and you know counts the amount of form fills. But how are you telling Google in the first instance, you know, your main kind of in inbound, if you like, lead generation is is calls and predominantly form fills. So, how are you using that data to make sure that Google is properly informed on the right conversion? Because if Google's moving to a model where it's all about the quality of conversion that you're uploading, how do you make sure that you're optimizing the campaign drive sales rather than just calls or just form fills that go nowhere? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 18:32

And I think the you know, we get tens of thousands of phone calls every month. So the key here is being able to identify which ones of those were new patients coming in. Um, starting from the beginning, ultimately, we want to drive, or my role is to drive more patients into the start of the journey. So I my job is to get them to either call us or to fill in a form fill online or sign up for a webinar. So I've then got a finite amount of budget that I've got available to me, and I need to make that work really, really hard. Um, so um first thing was is going, right, okay, I need to be able to track my conversions, right? So I could quite easily track my form fills, that's really easy. I could track my webinars, that's pretty easy because that's online. I can track calls, click to call. Um, but what I couldn't do was track um total phone calls and match them back. So that's where the call 360 tech came in. And I think what I really liked about the call 360 product was that it didn't just do the dynamic call tracking, which essentially allows you to change the phone number on the website, attach it to a G-click, and match it back to the particular keyword. So, you know, that keyword was on that page and it drove a um a call, um, which is great, right? We want to drive calls. But when you drive tens of thousands of calls and actually only about 10% of those are new patients ringing you because they're interested in your service, you could quite easily end up optimizing your account towards customer service calls or to existing patients. And that's not necessarily when you've got a finite budget, that's not what you want to do. So essentially using call 360, we're able to uh transcript, remove personally identifiable information, work out what the outcome of that call was. So what was it a warm lead? Was it a sale? You know, was it a uh a patient booking in? Um was it a returning patient, all these different things. And we're able to then go, right, we deem these to be high quality, and therefore feed that back into add words with the G-click, match it back to the keyword, and ultimately then feed that back into the automated algorithms now that Google sort of forced us to use. Um, and and what that allows us to do is well, ultimately, the better data that you give Google, the better outcome that you get.

SPEAKER_00: 20:50

And I think that that's the thing that I saw is originally when we created automated analytics, we kept a lot of conversion data to ourselves because I didn't want Google to have it. Now it's about uploading as much good quality data as you can. And obviously, the benefit to you is you're using AI to essentially that manual process you just described, the AI just speeds it up and ables you to do that in infinite seconds.

SPEAKER_01: 21:12

Yes. And and I think that there's other benefits to this as well. I mean, but you know, having uh AI looking at your the contents of your calls and able to show you trends is also useful in other parts of the business as well. So identifying frequently asked questions that existing customers are ringing up about or existing patients are ringing up about because they maybe haven't had that answered when they'd come in clinic or hadn't had that answered when they had the initial phone call. If we're able to identify them, we can make sure that when those conversations happen at clinic or when those conversations happen with our call center, that ultimately um it stops that repeat phone call. So it's not all about driving more phone calls, actually. In one half, it's about actually we want to, you know, ideally, if patients are phoning us up for something, it's because they're they're unsure. We need to fix that, and this helps us do that as well.

SPEAKER_00: 22:08

So reducing those customer service calls as well as increasing sales calls, I guess what you say. Now, what's interesting about your your lead generation model, so you're driving inbound calls, inbound full fills, but obviously a big part of your operation is also doing the outbound call to qualify, if you like, that initial lead. And and I think one of the successes you've had is being able to match that that form fill, so not just counting the form fill as a conversion, but actually the quality of that form fill by matching the outbound call to that form fill.

SPEAKER_01: 22:41

Yeah, so we we've now got all of the data. Um so we now we are tracking the outbound phone call and we have the form fill. We've still got to do some clever stuff to bring the two together, um, but we're now tracking that, which is going to be really interesting. So um tracking and using AI to transcript the outbound call and identify whether it was successful or not. Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 23:01

So we talked about performance marketing earlier. Clearly, you've got targets to meet. What success have you seen so far?

SPEAKER_01: 23:08

So we have been able to scale the spend on our account significantly, meaning that um uh because we're feeding in the right data, we are able to get more conversions out of our ad account. That means that the algorithms are learning and then we'll be able to um serve more ads. Um, that's meant we were able to spend more, which sounds terrible. We don't spend more, but ultimately we'll spend more and get more. So we we were able to drive up our volume of leads and drive down our um cost per call or cost per form fill by by doing this.

SPEAKER_00: 23:45

So from marketer actually getting an increase in budget, that's almost unheard of because usually the marketing budget is the first one to go if there's any cuts. So how have you been able to increase the marketing spend?

SPEAKER_01: 23:57

So I think being able to prove that we are feeding in the right information and prove that by increasing um the amount we spend on a particular campaign, we're able to show that we're going to get more leads and ultimately the business is is going through growth. We have um clinics that we need to fill and ultimately want to help as many patients as possible. So um by having the right information showing that we're measuring things correctly, it becomes much easier to get additional spend.

SPEAKER_00: 24:31

And I guess that that, as you say, that measuring that ROI, that return investment, actually having hard data so there's no data gaps, you know exactly what you're getting from, you know, whether it's you're spending a pound and getting 10 or 5 or whatever back, that must have been instrumental in that journey.

SPEAKER_01: 24:44

Yeah, and and don't get me wrong, right? This is the world of marketing tech. So the data is never perfect and it's not the full story. You know, not everybody accepts the cookies now, and we've got V2 that's come out, and and there's all sorts of different things that are impacting that. I think this is not necessarily about going, oh, I spend this pound and I get this. It's how you're using these as signals to drive the performance of your business. Ultimately, you put money in at the top and then you get output at the bottom in whatever business that you do. This bit in the middle, I think going back probably five or six years, you used to be able to track everything and it was much more transparent. That's becoming much more difficult now. So as a marketeer, your story is slightly different. It's not that just because something didn't drive a conversion doesn't mean it's bad. Um, and particularly in in the fertility sector, it that that would apply. I go back to what I said earlier, there's a huge research piece at the start of that journey. So there are lots of keywords, lots of searches, lots of pages on the site that probably won't drive a conversion. That doesn't mean that they're not really important in that conversion journey. So, yes, we've got all of this data. Yes, it's really, really valuable, and yes, we're able to identify roughly what our CPA is and make sure that we're driving that in the right direction, but it's not the full story as well.

SPEAKER_00: 26:07

So you mentioned V2, which is Google's Consent V2, which they launched, I think it was around 21st of July 2025, which really, you know, is starting to limit how you can track people online because of we have GDPR here in the UK. But you take a very pragmatic view. How's Google Consent affected things for you? And how do you see the future of being able to track customers for VAR Online?

SPEAKER_01: 26:34

Well, well, I think lots of things have changed over the last couple of years. So, you know, the bring bringing in of the um of cookies and you know, having to have certain things on your cookie banner and having to make sure that you get explicit consent uh around marketing, and now it's you know that you know more there are more and more tools out there that are going to cookie-less, so people are finding ways around it. Marketeers will always find a way, right? So, but going going back to what I said before, this isn't it's never the full story. This is about uh and and nowadays it's all about finding signals that point your algorithms to to in the right direction. So it doesn't need to be perfect. This is about trends, this is about making sure that trend is going in the right direction. It doesn't matter whether you're tracking a hundred or or two hundred, you know, you might be getting 200 sales and you're only putting 100 through your account. As long as that number is going up, it's it's all about those those those trends, really. So, although, yes, tracking is getting harder, I think nothing really changes from from my perspective.

SPEAKER_00: 27:40

So, what advice would you give to a fellow marketer who who has got that struggle of right, how do I work out what my ROI is? How do I work out what my return on advertising spend is? Where do they start?

SPEAKER_01: 27:52

There's there's almost ways in which you can track things. There is technology out there, call 360 is a good good example of that. Um talk to you know your peers, talk to find out what other people are doing. I mean for me personally, it's all about talking to other people, finding out what other tech, what they're doing, what challenges they've solved. And for me, it's you know, that's where I get all of my inspiration and interest.

SPEAKER_00: 28:17

Delving into you as a person, um, you are actually a blues fan, Small Thief United, for those that don't know. And I'm an Aston Villa fan. And I don't know if I can take you back when we first met four or five years ago. I remember your closing remark to me was Um, as long as you're not an Aston Villa fan, because I'll never buy from an Aston Villa fan. So what changed? What made what made you choose us?

SPEAKER_01: 28:41

Well, yes, no, really great piece of tech, yes. So, first of all, they were called Small Heath Alliance before they changed the name to Medium Systems. Yes. Um so you probably want to do your get your facts right before you start there.

SPEAKER_00: 28:53

Well, they're there, but there are a couple of divisions below us, so we we don't Aston Villa don't take that.

SPEAKER_01: 28:57

Yeah, we're in that league that you're in a few years.

SPEAKER_00: 29:00

Although I have to say, I have to say, the best games are always Villa Blues. They were the best games ever.

SPEAKER_01: 29:07

They were that well, they are, yes, and they will be again, I imagine, hopefully soon. Either way with you in the championship next season or with us in the Premier League.

SPEAKER_00: 29:14

So you've got Tom Brady, who's part of your ownership team. What does he bring to Birmingham City?

SPEAKER_01: 29:19

Uh I think he brings a lot of energy and some money, which is really, really useful. So um, and yeah, um, along along with uh uh Super Chris, he's they seem to be doing a good job. They've got us um you know up into the championship and we've had a good start.

SPEAKER_00: 29:33

So and do you think is Birmingham City ready for that step up to the Premier League? Because uh as you say, I would love even though I'm an Aston Villa fan, I would love City to be in the Premier League because I think the Premier League is about you know the big I think traditional teams like I'm I'm pleased that Leeds uh are in the Premier League, Forest are in the in the Premier League, you know, it needs those big cities being represented, and Birmingham's part of that at the end of the day. Are they ready to get to the Premier League?

SPEAKER_01: 30:02

Well, we'll see this season, I think. I think we need to be realistic about our goals. I would love to see us back in the Premier League as quickly as possible. But yeah, we'll have to see, won't we?

SPEAKER_00: 30:14

When Aston Villa in the Championship, I uh and I still believe this today, it was super competitive. You know, we were in there for two seasons, and you know, every game you could win or lose it. Is Championship still like that for Birmingham City?

SPEAKER_01: 30:27

Yeah, well, look, it's it's an incredibly physical league. Um, it's very different to the Premier League, and it's why a lot of teams end up bouncing between the two leagues a lot. Um, it's Premier League's an increasingly challenging league to um move into. Um one from a financial perspective, but two, just the quality of the teams at the top of the table. Um but it's great to see Villa back where they belong down in the uh in the relegation zone.

SPEAKER_00: 30:55

So great where we belong in the relegation zone. Oh yeah. Won't be for long. Although we haven't scored a goal this season, which I think is a record, first three Premier League games we've still yet to score a goal. And haven't won a trophy for a while either. Yeah, but yeah, we're still European champions from 82. We all remember that, Mark. We all remember European champions. So who's the one player that you would want Birmingham City to buy today? And then who's the one player, if they got into the Premier League, who would you buy?

SPEAKER_01: 31:26

Good question. Well, I'm hoping I don't know when this podcast will go out, but I'm hoping by the time it does, we'll have secured Mitrovic. Maybe depends if he can afford his wages coming back from Saudi, so we'll have to see.

SPEAKER_00: 31:38

Um who would I who would I so you'd like Mitrovic in the in championship? So Hex Fulham, very I mean, great player, but a great championship player. I think you do I could do a very good job for Birmingham City, I must admit. So let's say you get promoted to the Premier League. Who's the one player you'd wish Birmingham City would get if they got promoted?

SPEAKER_01: 31:59

I think controversially, I'd say Isaac, prolific goal scorer. Just gone to Liverpool, just gone to Liverpool. Forced the move from Newcastle. Absolutely, I believe he bought his house in Liverpool before it was all sorted and basically said, I'm not playing. Um so yeah, he's got what he wanted. Um, but yeah, um, sounds like it's hard work, but he certainly does the business, doesn't he? So for me, it'll probably be Isaac.

SPEAKER_00: 32:19

And I think in the Premier League, you need a proven goal scorer as Villa are finding out at the moment, having not scored any goals in the first three three uh games season. Come on, Ollie, we know you can put it the ball in the back of the net. We just need you to find that net sooner rather than later. So um just to finish off, and and it's been fascinating to find about you and obviously your love for Bergham City. What's the future hold for Mark Bevan? What are you going to do next?

SPEAKER_01: 32:42

Uh well, nobody knows what the future holds, but um I am really, really happy where I'm working right now. I think TFP Facilities got um, you know, great people, um real great purpose, and there is so much to do and so much more that we could do to improve um the business across the board, but particularly in the sales and marketing function um that I'm in.

SPEAKER_00: 33:06

Excellent stuff. And finally, just before we sign off, one final question from me. What's the one thing that no one knows about you that you can tell us about today?

SPEAKER_01: 33:16

I uh I suppose professionally most people don't know that in my spare time I'm uh I actually run a scuba diving club in Birmingham. I know, Birmingham, landlocked, probably the least uh place that you'd expect to have a scuba diving club. But yeah, so um I've been um chairman of the BUEC now for uh this will be my fifth term, so uh really been trying to drag the club into 21st century, um, look at you know uh and and we've seen huge growth in members, much more active club. Um really, really enjoyed that, and you know, it's it's a thing that I enjoyed doing in my spare time as well. So, what attracts you to scuba diving? Sorry? What attracted you to scuba diving? Uh originally scuba diving was something that I did abroad. Uh as uh, you know, you go abroad and you go to the you know the local sports centre of the hotel and go and do like what's called like a tri-dive or whatever. Um, and then uh a friend of mine sort of said, Oh, you know, I fancy he he went and did the course, and then um we decided to do a holiday. Um so that then forced me to have to go and get the qualification, decided that, well, I didn't want to do it while I was away because I wanted to focus on the holiday while I was away, and that's when I found uh the BUEC who taught me to dive in the UK, which is um um, I suppose much less sexy than diving in um you know the Maldives and the Caribbean. But uh a swimming pool in Birmingham.

SPEAKER_00: 34:41

Swimming pool is less desirable than the Maldives.

SPEAKER_01: 34:44

Absolutely and in the local local quarries, there's lots to see, but it's slightly darker and uh you know colder, I suppose, than the diving that I really enjoy.

SPEAKER_00: 34:53

Excellent stuff. Mark, it's been great having you guys. Thank you so much for giving us insight, not only into good lads, but you personally. Um, I do wish Birmingham City uh the best this season. Thank you very much for appearing on today's episode. Thank you.