SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Think of you as an artist, number one, selling artist. Are you worried that someone could copy you with AI?

SPEAKER_02: 0:06

The brand, the person, that's me, and I own me. A discussion I had with a football club who wanted to um use my mallet, and I said, no, you can't.

SPEAKER_01: 0:18

I think relying on AI, you know, to be a TV presenter, it'll never be as good as the real thing. It might be cheaper. I mean, how could you replace Timmy Vallett? How could you replace him with AI? You could try. I'm just not I'm just not so sure you you'd be terribly successful.

SPEAKER_02: 0:34

My dad, in the Second World War, was posted to India in the pay corps. And he took with him a f a camera, and he took in two and a half years 27 photos.

SPEAKER_01: 0:48

For some of our younger audience members, if they're looking to get into music, if they're looking to get into art, what would Timmy advise them to do?

SPEAKER_02: 0:55

Do it. Do it. Do whatever the thing is that makes you laugh and makes you giggle. Make the little film and share it on your social.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09

Timmy, welcome to the Automated Analytics Podcast. It is great to have you on your show. I think, as you know, I'm a bit of a fan. I always wanted to be on Whackaday as a kid growing up in the 80s. It was just that that time on TV that kids wanted to be involved, and you're a big part of my childhood growing up. So it's great to have you on the on the show. Now, for those that don't know who Timmy Mallet is, who is Timmy Mallet? Because you're not just TV, you're wider than that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:39

Simple thing is probably Google it and go and look at Wikipedia. That's what everybody does, don't they? That uh you just go and f to find out stuff. Look, I I've I'm I'm having a very interesting career uh and uh I'm excited by all sorts of different things. I began in uh uh doing history and history of art at uni at Warwick. I went into uh radio uh at uh local radio at Radio Oxford, which led me into becoming a radio DJ and doing Luxembourg and Piccadilly Radio Manchester, and that led to TV. And I don't know, I I don't think careers are linear, I think they uh expand in all sorts of different ways. There's a knock on the door, you an opportunity arrives, let's see where that leads. You'll have had that in your career too, won't you, Mark?

SPEAKER_01: 2:38

Yeah, but Timmy, what I what I love about you is your passion. You know, I don't I don't ever think you've had a down day, if you get what I mean. Your passion always comes through. And that knock on the door, it's interesting. It feels like you're a bit of a yes, you know, as in yeah, I'll do that, or yeah, I'd like to be involved. Is that your attitude? Oh, I think you should always do that.

SPEAKER_02: 2:56

I think that's a very good idea. I mean, you you know, with a caveat, you know, use your common sense, but uh the opportunities do come your way, and uh, you know, uh the the TV and Wide Awake Club and Wackaday landed at a time, uh a golden age of TV. Um uh uh and in many ways that's that's uh only visible in hindsight. But you know, when you were growing up, Mark, TV started at four in the afternoon. Uh you you you waited for the TV to go on, and then at night it went off at midnight, and there was a beep sleep well. Breakfast TV came in in 1982, and uh we had new channels arrived at the same time, channel four, later, a few years later, five or six years, perhaps channel five. But there was an outcry that that breakfast TV would lead to a moral decline and who would watch telly in the mornings. It transpired everybody did. And I happened to be on the TV at that time, and I'm eternally grateful because uh that lovely audience watching the show at seven stay with you forever. Mark, you're a classic example of this. You're a little wide awaker watching the telly and enjoying Wackaday and the Wide Awake Club.

SPEAKER_01: 4:27

And what what led you in TV? You you mentioned about radio, but how did you make those first steps? Was it just an opportune moment, someone coming knocking on the door? Or did you purposely go out and think, no, I I'm I want to go into radio. I want to go into TV.

SPEAKER_02: 4:41

Exactly. I wanted to go into radio. Radio was was the first love, and I wrote to all these stations, and one of them wrote back and said, There's nothing at the moment but ever in the area. So I just wrote back and said, I'm in the area on Friday, and knocked on the door and talked my way into a two-week assignment, which became a month, which became um extended and extended. Very lucky. But you know, hard work, make yourself available, um, keep your eyes open and find out what's going on and learn.

SPEAKER_01: 5:18

But but that hard work, to me, that's a great demonstration of who you are as a person. Because yeah, who would take the time and the effort nowadays to write, to send an email, to write to people, and and as you say, I am available. That must have taken some commitment. Yeah, you must have really had that passion to to go into radio from a young age.

SPEAKER_02: 5:38

Yep, yep. I loved it. I I found a radio station at uh uh the university at Warwick. First day, walking past a shed with the door open and music playing and the DJ saying, Would the next DJ turn up, please? I want to go for my breakfast. And I thought, wow, that's exciting. Uh and there was a magic about uh about broadcasting that I was absolutely hooked. And it was only having done that for 10 years that that the opportunity of TV became more attractive and those doors opened with the arrival of Breakfast TV. You know, my colleagues and friends were involved in um in TV AM, and they said, come and do this, be involved in our new kids' show. Yeah, okay, I'll give that a go. And that led to stage shows and performing uh on stage, which led to uh uh honing your craft and working the audience and how to do an a show and be entertaining on the stage. That led to a record which went to number one around the world. And I go tick, tick, tick to these different aspects, and I think I'm very fortunate.

SPEAKER_01: 6:56

And and that comes through from you as a person, you're a very, very positive person. Now, I just want to take you back to those radio days. Do you remember the first record that you played?

SPEAKER_02: 7:06

Yep. Uh, if you're ready, come go with me by the staple singers. No, really, it's a great song. Have a listen to it. It's really a really powerful song about being optimistic and having a go.

SPEAKER_01: 7:18

And was there a particular genre that you liked? Because if you take your your number one hit, it's It'sy Bitsy Teeny Weenie, I think it's a bit. Yellow poker dot bikini that she wore for the first time today. Oh yeah. Very, very, very dancy. But was there a particular type of music you liked growing up being a DJ? I love pop music.

SPEAKER_02: 7:35

I think pop music's really important in our lives. It's important because you use it, music to measure the things that happened in our lives. You might not remember the date, but you'll say, I remember, you know, starting at that school, the new job, falling in love, moving house. Buy those songs. And they're part of our they become part of our DNA. And when you get into the radio now, you go onto Spotify and have a little listen to your favourites. I had a little thing come up on Spotify this morning, actually, and said, Hey, uh, here's your year of of listens of Spotify. This is by the way, you've had um uh uh you know a quarter of a million listens to It'sy Bitsy have happened uh this year. Oh, that's nice. Thank you very much. Do I earn anything from it? Probably a couple of pence.

SPEAKER_01: 8:26

But but but that's it's interesting because that's the way the internet has changed the music industry. Um what one of the episodes that we're doing in this series, we I've interviewed Eddie MT, a guy called Adam Taylor, who again it if he was selling CDs, he'd probably be doing very well. But but it's 0.03 of a pence that I think he's getting per play. That's a different industry now than what it was, and that's the impact that the internet's had on had really on the music industry.

SPEAKER_02: 8:53

Oh, look, uh th the world is changing vastly and dramatically, and it's quite exciting. Uh, I think this is a a thrill that I've lived through such great technological changes. Uh, and each year this appears to be something new and different. Little example of you've just given of It'sy Bitsy, when that became uh you know a million selling record, that meant that a million people bought the physical plastic record that they put on your turntable. So it's saving up your pocket money, going down to the high street, probably into Woolworth, saying, Have you got it? Yes, here it is. It comes home with you in your bag and you get home and you put it on the turntable and it sets the room alight, and then you put it on repeat. Probably flip it over after an hour to have a listen to the B side, then put it back again. It's uh exciting. Nowadays you don't own music, you just rent it, and it doesn't have quite the same impact. Songs still matter, but owning the song, having physical ownership of uh of something is uh is different. I I find that the the technological way that life is changing is thrilling, and your job with automated analytics is a part of that actually. Um look, back in those days of the Wide Awake Club, we didn't have this, the mobile phone, it just didn't exist, and then it came in in the mid-80s, and people said what do you want a phone for? What do you want a mobile? Why would you ever want people to be able to get hold of you all the time? What are you gonna do? And the the reason it was sold to me, and I was given one, it was a good example by um what was the company called? Orange. Yeah, the the the company was orange and their advert was what was it? Um Future's Bright, the future's Futures Orange, that's it, yeah. So um stay in touch with your celebrity friends with a mobile phone. Oh, well now of course all business is done on a mobile, and who has a landline anymore? I was mortified when earlier this year they said you're losing your landline, it's going to become a digital line, and it's a shocker. It's the quality is awful. Give me that copper wire that goes to my house any day, and I'd be very happy to use that. But if you go back another few years, you'll have shared party lines. Your family will tell you about this, you know, that the day you got your landline at home, very likely somebody else had uh uh shared the line with you. So you'd pick up the phone, and oh, I can't uh speak because somebody else is talking. What are they saying? What's going on? I remember the day we got the uh we got not the mobile, we got the landline at home in Marple. And uh very excited, uh the phone number was four numbers, you know, Marple 4827 or something. And I there was a uh one of those roller decks, but it wasn't a roller decks, it was just a flip thing for the 20 or 30 numbers that the family had, and one of them was my dad's office, so I rang the office to uh speak to my dad. Hello, and the the receptionist said, Yes, Calico Printers. Can I speak to my daddy? Yeah, what's your daddy's name? Daddy, okay, what's your name? Timmy, and your second name, and that by default, they finally get hold of my dad who comes on the phone very anxious. What's the matter? What's the matter? I phone is to tell you what's for tea. So I told him what's for tea. And when he came home that day, he said to my mum, I had a very important phone call today, and I'm beaming from ear to ear saying, What's for tea? And it's you know, fish fingers, chips and beans. And he said, I'm so excited because I was told on the phone, and it was that bit of communication. Now I can remember that, and that's become part of a little family folklore of history, but the technology is different now, isn't it? So I've got at home the collection of handwritten letters and typed letters that were sent backwards and forwards to me when I went away to school. Of course, you wouldn't have those these days because everything's uh uh an email or a text and they're immediate, but you don't keep them, they don't have that longevity. So the connection is interesting, isn't it? Where do we see the way that people interacted with each other from years ago? Technology, the changing of it. So the mobile phone's a good one. And then you come to 1990 and and Tim Berners-Lee, and that wonderful transformation that happened, the invention of the interweb. Wow. And here we are, suddenly everybody's now online, and nobody phones on this device anymore. It's used for accessing the squillian things. You've had a little look at that and said, Oh, you've got far too many apps on your phone to. You have, Timmy. I have. How many do I should I cull down to?

SPEAKER_01: 14:49

You've got some like 146. I think you need max like 40. Max 40. Really? Yeah, you've got a lot on there.

SPEAKER_02: 14:56

Well, what about ones that you might use occasionally?

SPEAKER_01: 14:59

Um, so delete them and use them when you need them. Yeah, or do you really need them? Is if you only use them occasionally. It's up to you. I mean, it's your choice, but I I cull. Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 15:09

Cull cull as much as you can. Uh so I'm going to do that. That's going to be my job later on. Is that my one impact on the side? Yeah, no, no.

SPEAKER_01: 15:16

You've had such a big impact on me as a child. So my return impact on you is you delete loads of stuff off your boot.

SPEAKER_02: 15:22

Because you know, the internet, the next thing that happens is it is um social media.

SPEAKER_01: 15:29

Uh, and I follow nobody. Which I thought was when we were chatting last week, an amazing fact that you don't follow anybody. Nobody, nobody.

SPEAKER_02: 15:39

I I delete them all. I use it for putting out, not for getting in, because I I get enough from this, from the conversation. And you know, the WhatsApp messages, the little jokes from your pals, look at them, delete, you know, clear clear away. But the the socials, uh they're useful for putting out and um sharing stories. So for instance, on my uh I'm driven by curiosity uh and exploring. So my love of history and storytelling that came from Wackaday and you know, those shows that you watched. I now uh um feed those with cycling. I'm a cycled tourist. I started by cycling the great Camino de Santiago, you know, the ancient pilgrimage route across Europe. Back in the Middle Ages, quarter of a million people a year would make their journey from wherever they lived in Europe to Santiago de Compostela in northwest Spain to see the hand. Yep, the hand or the the the the tomb of of um Saint John. And uh, you know, wow. Well, that's hence hence Santiago, St. John. You know, he's the brother or cousin of Christ. And still to this day, people do this journey, and I made that journey from home on my bike and documented it in paintings because I'm a keen artist and I I'll paint and sketch every day. And so that's led to cycling now across uh uh Europe. I've done a circumnavigation of Britain and a circumnavigation of Ireland, and uh up on my Strava came my six and a half thousand miles this year uh of cycling. And on the way I would tell stories, and the stories are filmed on the phone. Shoot them on the phone, edit on the phone, lovely little uh um uh gadgets you can do them, and share them on the socials, and for whatever reason, uh they always want to be filmed on socials, uh portrait as a landscape looks much better, but portrait because people watch there, don't they? Yeah, that's where that's okay. First thing in the morning, get up, what's happening? And and the algorithms, your algorithms say you uh where Timmy's cycling, you might be interested in this. Oh, I haven't seen him for years. I thought he was dead. I'll follow him. Right, that's gonna be interesting. And so we've got you know uh half a million followers um just from sharing stories. And I'm not particularly looking to use this to make uh um to get funding back. I don't say hello YouTube, you can pay me. Um I'll put them out on these channels and use it as a as a place where people are going to watch. Because I know that if you watch at that angle, you're going to be committed to it because it's very personal. It's you and I speaking like this. If it's on the telly, it's over there or in the corner of the room, and you glance at it, yeah, mm-hmm, that's nice and lovely, but it's not quite as as grabs you like this, and that's good for your business because how how do we get people to watch stuff? The famous phrase these days is content, isn't it? Where does content come from? Well, content apparently has to be a maximum of three minutes. Who came up with that arbitrary figure? Why why is that? Tick is different. That says okay, you can go up to ten. Oh, right, okay. And then if you go to you, it it's um long form stuff. You know, they'll give you 30 minutes and uh uh put lots of stuff into it, lots of uh straps going on and banners and little comments and let people get involved in it. Uh my world's busy enough with this. I'll uh here's the story, it's real. This is what I'm doing. And it's one bloke on his own, peddling around Britain with my observations.

SPEAKER_01: 20:06

So hugely successful in TV. Yeah. Number one selling artist, and you're a painter. Yeah. What's been the key thing? What's been the secret to your success? Because that's quite a varied and wide artistic talent. What's been the key? Make it real.

SPEAKER_02: 20:28

Make it real. Believe it. You know, do it with all your heart and soul. And and if it works, it'll work. That's the simple answer. And I'll stick with that.

SPEAKER_01: 20:45

Good. So when when we talk about, and I just want to delve into Wackaday, the concept of Wackaday was a fun kid's half-hour hour on TV. I'd never seen anything like it. I don't remember anything where suddenly this man jumps out loudly dressed, you know, and just wants to have fun. What was that an extension of your personality? Was it a concept you came up with? Was it just you being you on the TV? I think these things develop really.

SPEAKER_02: 21:17

You know, we we began with uh with the show with we've got an a cartoon, we'll have a make, we'll have a little story that was a puppet to begin with, and let's see how those all come together. And after a while you think, oh, we'll ditch that and we'll bring in this and we'll try something else and we'll have this game. I don't know, a word association game with a mallet. And uh I remember thinking, well, we'll do that for you know, a month or so and then move on to something else. And they said, Oh, well, you'll probably have it forever.

unknown: 21:46

Ha!

SPEAKER_01: 21:47

Think they're right. And when did you come up with that? What was it? Was it just a magic moment? Was it just that did you always have that in your mind? Or did it be a production meeting?

SPEAKER_02: 21:55

Uh, you know, let we need a game. What game should we do? Uh I know, a word association game. Yeah, apple, banana, uh, yeah, orange, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, Bosch. Ah, Bosch, you know, with a with a foam mallet. Call it mallets mallet. Are you alright with that? Why? Because you'll have it forever. See how it goes. Yeah, I've had it forever. Mallet's mallet. And honestly, it happens as simply as that. So why does that last because it captures the imagination at a time when uh a golden age of TV, a golden age of television. So you're watching in the morning when you're getting ready for the day. And your parents sit you down in front of the TV, because that 20 minutes, half an hour is when your mum can have a cuppa, get her thoughts together about what she's going to do, and you're gonna be happy and entertained. And then she'll pop in and have a little look and go, oh, that's funny. Or it might be on in the kitchen, wherever it is in the in the house, and uh it becomes absorbing, and everybody is part of it. I I you nowadays it will it will be different, uh, and that's okay. Nothing lasts forever, Mark. Everything is constantly changing and in flux, and I think the fact that things are changing and in flux is a good thing.

SPEAKER_01: 23:26

Yeah, it's totally bonkers if you don't mind me saying that you you when Mallet's mallet was created, you didn't think it was going to last because this thing has lasted years. You know, it really has been part of you. Putting that to one side, what's the one TV program you wish you'd either created, hosted, or been involved in?

SPEAKER_02: 23:47

I did it, I've done it. Thank you very much. Whackaday, very happy. Don't give me any others, I'm happy with that.

SPEAKER_01: 23:53

That's and that's that is amazing to hear how content you are because sometimes the pressure is on right, I've got to deliver more, I've got to do something else. But it really was that central piece, and it really has given you so much. Now, you appeared on I'm I'm I'm a sled. You went in there, which is quite topical because it's it's only it's only just finished now. Did that did that re you know, did that help broaden your appeal to a different base, or what what led you to do that?

SPEAKER_02: 24:21

Uh bit of fun, um comfortable with the great outdoors. I think that's uh you know what you're signing up for. This is a bit of fun, and Anton Deck are good fun, aren't they? Yes. We laugh at them, and they have great script writers and come up with some good gags, and it's funny. And you're gonna get covered in cack and and and it'll be funny. And that's fine, and I really did enjoy that. Can be a little challenging, perhaps, with uh a group of people in a tiny little compartment, one or two who are trying a little bit too hard, maybe.

SPEAKER_01: 24:58

And and that's the thing, do do you do you did everybody go in with the same sense you had of because I I get I get the feeling from you're very much a can do, I'm gonna give it my best shot. You're a very, very positive person, which which what I love about you, Timmy. Is do you think everybody else goes into it in the same mindset, or do they see it as a no, this is gonna help me launch my career? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02: 25:17

I think everybody's got a different idea about different things, haven't they? I don't think it I'm not gonna worry about how other people approach it. Be true to yourself. That's all you have to do, isn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 25:31

Yeah, yeah. So just turning the conversation to to AI, if Wackaday existed today, how do you think AI, or would AI even be involved in the production or the setup of Wackaday today? Probably.

SPEAKER_02: 25:48

I I don't quite know how that would happen, but little example, if you're wanting people to be involved in the show, if you want to be on Wackaday, write in. You write into Wackaday, POBox200 London NW18Q. And guess who wrote in? You're sitting right there, Mark. Didn't you? Yeah. Okay, so you would write in, you knew that address off by heart because I would repeat it over.

SPEAKER_01: 26:18

I quoted back the postcode to you. Straight away.

SPEAKER_02: 26:20

There you go. And then you put the stamp on, then you say, Mum, uh, will I get on? And you're waiting and waiting for the call. And okay, so it might happen, Mark. It may happen one day. Be patient. You know, there is a sackload of mail there. Uh that would be different now, wouldn't it? People would uh uh approach you differently to get on, you'd have a different way of doing it. That's the first example. Um, and then have your photos on wax snaps. Remember they're taking a photo on the holiday.

SPEAKER_01: 26:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 26:54

Right. So you're on holiday, you've gone to your favourite beach, your seaside. Where would you go for your seaside holidays? Benedome, of course. No, where would you go in England? Oh, where do you go in England? Um New Key. Right. So you go down in New Key, and holidays start uh around about 20th of July. Yep. So you're down, what, the first or second week of the school holidays? Six weeks. Right. So you're going to take the photo on the beach. The first thing you'll do is on the way down, is you'll do a whacker wave out the back of the car to everybody else going in, and occasionally people will whackaway back, or you'll go blah through the window at each other, and you go, there's a wide awakener. There's a little language that you share with each other. You get to New Key, and the first day you go onto the beach and you build a sand castle or a big W in the sand. Take a picture, mum. She takes a picture, right? Okay. It's a roll of film. You've got to finish off the roll of film, and then you've got to send it off to be developed. How long does that take? Week? At least. Ten days? Yeah. Ten days. And back would come the photos. Okay, so we're well into the middle of August now. Backward comes the photos, and here's the picture. Okay, you're quite a long way away. We don't see you very clearly. There's you, your brother and sister. Okay, with the big W in the sand. Okay, but it's good. So we'll send that off to Wackaday. What's the address?

SPEAKER_01: 28:23

London. Wackaday.

SPEAKER_02: 28:25

PO box 200, London, NW18Q.

SPEAKER_01: 28:30

It's 8 TQ, sorry, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 28:32

Mark.

SPEAKER_01: 28:32

Okay, I'll get better. I'll get better. I'll get better with it.

SPEAKER_02: 28:35

Okay, so you send it off and then you wait for it to appear. And maybe, just maybe, at the end of the holidays, there it is. Fleetingly, you're on the telly for two seconds. Wow, how good you feel.

SPEAKER_01: 28:49

Yeah, amazing.

SPEAKER_02: 28:51

I've been on the telly. That picture worked, mum. Yeah. Isn't it great? But it took quite a lot of effort to get on. And how many million people did it? Squillions. Squillions and squillions and squillions. Honestly, loads of photos of great holidays. And you go, it's part of your your memory, isn't it? And the fact that you wrote in, you'll you'll come across other people who watch Whackaday, and they'll all say the same thing. I wrote in, and occasionally you'll come across somebody who says, I was on. And that happens most days. I get people will say, I was on. Amazing. And love their little memory of it.

SPEAKER_01: 29:32

Good. But nowadays it would be an app, wouldn't it? Or it'd be upload your photo to this or take a picture or feed off Instagram or a hashtag.

SPEAKER_02: 29:41

It'd be more immediate.

SPEAKER_01: 29:45

So that's how it would work. And and do you think because of that immediacy that, you know, not just AI but the internet, do you think people are losing something in that? Because you mentioned earlier about about authenticity and communication has become a lot easier. But that whole ceremony of taking the picture and the whacka wave and sending the film off and getting it back, do you think we sacrifice something for speed? Uh we have more photos.

SPEAKER_02: 30:14

Our life is more documented in pictures than it has ever been. However, they're digital. There's very few physical photos. And I personally think the physical photos are the ones that will last. So the people who put the effort into making photo books are well done. Now, those photo books are are mostly mainly interested to you. They're not necessarily going to be interesting to historians because there'll be pictures of places, though it can actually have an impact if you take a photo and you have a physical copy. I'll give another example of where this comes about. My dad in the Second World War was posted to India in the pay corps, and he took with him a f a camera, and he took in two and a half years 27 photos. 27 pictures, and he diligently wrote on the back the names of all the different people Lofty, Benno, Jacko, self, you know, and there they all are. Now, without them being real photos, they'd be lost as digital pictures. So your physical photo of you on the beach at Yuki has a value way beyond the digital one.

SPEAKER_01: 31:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 31:47

Because it it's one of only 30 that were taken on that role of film, or 28 or whatever, two of which were of the cat and the dog to finish up the role, and half a dozen were out of focus or your thumb was over it.

SPEAKER_01: 32:01

Now we take hundreds of photos a day. And you wouldn't know until you got the film back that you'd actually made a mistake on the film in the first place. It was that it was that uh that what the photo is going to look like, that memory of the holiday that you then got, you know, reliving it almost two weeks, ten days later when you got the film back.

SPEAKER_02: 32:18

So the the question is can AI help a show like Wackaday? And I don't know because it's not on now. Yep. Uh and it that's a hypothetical question, isn't it? Where it is useful is in all sorts of other areas. And it's instantly a part of our lives all the time. Um when you ask a question, you Google a question, don't you? You don't ask it anymore. You don't go to an encyclopedia, you go to Wikipedia, you or you Google a question, and AI gives you a brief snapshot. So you did an interesting thing because your AI that you Googled whether I'd opened the French Gate Shopping Centre in Doncaster got it wrong. Yep. So ask me. I know I opened the French Gate shopping centre, uh uh, and AI will now correct it and it will now say Timmy opened it.

SPEAKER_01: 33:15

Definitely. And I think that's the thing with AI, is it can never replace the human being because how can someone replace your memory? You knew that you were there. Yeah, well. When you walk down the street, it was really interesting. You meet you said, and that's the shopping centre I opened. Yeah, I recognised it straight away.

SPEAKER_02: 33:30

Um I've done a few of those. There's one in Shrewsbury and Camberley and Bury and uh lots of different towns around the country. Probably those shopping centres, by and large, have uh uh are on their last legs, they're being re repurposed into something else these days. Because our shopping experience is different now. It's done online, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 33:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 33:54

Uh though we still like to browse. We still like the physical aspect of going down the street, and you hope that the shops will still be there.

SPEAKER_01: 34:02

Hopefully. Now, thinking of you as an artist, number one, selling artist, is are you worried the impact that AI is having in the music industry? Are you worried that someone could copy you with AI? Because admittedly, it's quite a unique song that you came out with. But how would you feel if someone created Timmy Mallet the AI version? Of what? Of you. Someone if someone if someone recreated you in AI.

SPEAKER_02: 34:38

The first thing is I think you could tell the difference. Um it has it it has raised its head. Somebody uh one of those one of the socials asked me the other day if I wanted to translate my reels into another language. And I debated with um the family about this as to whether this was a good idea. But uh in the end, I decided that my audience is primarily English speaking, and I'm not sure I want to have my voice translated into a language or a country I can't spell. So uh I don't think it's necessary. Uh and uh an AI Timmy mallet, well, it could be useful, but the brand, the person, that's me, and I own me. So uh, you know, I protect my brand, and I have protected my mallet, pinky bunky. But you know, you can Google the the the discussion I had with a football club who wanted to um use my mallet, and I said, no, you can't. Um so I'm uh protective of that. I I think there's an interesting example that you can buy a uh a birthday card with uh Tommy Cooper on. Well, that birthday card pays a royalty to the estate of Tommy Cooper, even though it it it they're using is sampling his voice. If you were to sample a blah from Timmy Mallet, well, that's my blah. That's mine, actually.

SPEAKER_01: 36:26

And to use it, no, I would protect it. And I think sometimes this is what people forget. This is your livelihood. Yeah, yeah. This is how you, as an artist, yeah, whether it's on TV, whether it's painting, whether it's music, this is how you make your money. This is this is you, and therefore that protection I think is quite key because I think it's the one area that I'm more concerned about understanding AI and having an AI software business, is that copyright, particularly in your industry, is absolutely key because it it's it's it's how you protect yourself, but it's how you actually make your money. That's that's why arts in some way exists, because you can't do it for free.

SPEAKER_02: 37:05

I I I'm uh I'm aware of it. Uh I'm I'm I'm not as worried about it as perhaps others may be, because I think that we are ingrained in an understanding of fairness and copyright. And when somebody tried to copy um my look and sell it as Timmy Mallet as a look, um, no, I stopped the toy company from doing that. And um uh that was just you can't do that. And they went, oops, sorry, no, we can't. So one of the things I was thinking about with actors, and actors are worried about it, is that the movies these days are full of CGI and uh the big blockbuster this Christmas is Avatar, isn't it? It's it's an invented country, an invented creature, invented everything. Okay, even that's got a uh got an ownership of who owns it.

SPEAKER_01: 38:10

Yeah, because I think when you're and when I think about it, is if you forgive me for saying that, Timiness. How could I get you across in AI? You'd lose it because of your human interaction, your human personality, the way you are as an individual. Trying to replicate that, difficult to do. Because as you're as you say, AI, and and Jimmy Carr has a similar kind of expression, it it's a poor version of you, it's it's like a covers band. You know, they will never be as creative because they're basing it off you. You will always come up with new ideas, new things. Um, whereas the AI is always looking back and and looking at what you've done previously to try and work out how to position you moving forward. And and I think because when I look at your career, you've also influenced a lot of people. So Chris Evans, I think, was your T-boy who's gone on to, you know, he he was massive in in kind of broadcasting, still is now, you know, um, and and and you actually helped discover a lot of talent as well. Uh actually you've had a I think a bit more impact on TV than you sometimes let on. Well, that's very kind of you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 39:20

Thank you very much for saying. Uh I I think uh again, be true, be real. Uh it it it's important in in performance and in anything that you do uh to do with this, be real about it. Uh but I'm I'm not going to belittle AI, because I think it's got a very good role to be had. It's got a good role in all sorts of things. Medicine. Got to be a good thing in medicine. Triaging thing. When you phone up the GP and say, Oh, my leg hurts. Right, what have you done? Have you fallen off anything? Da da da. He he he ticks off all the things it isn't, then says, right, okay, better come in and I'll have a little look. Ah, yes, I can see what you've done. Right. You've you you've fallen on the garden fork. Okay. But uh triaging uh is the obvious example in medicine that could be done by uh uh automation, and then you giving uh uh the the consultant or the nurse the chance to to uh help fix it. I also think it's got a role in education. It's an interesting thing with education. There's a pal of mine involved in education in sub-Saharan Africa. Uh and the premise of his business is that uh if you teach literacy and numeracy to youngsters, you can uh uh have a positive impact on population growth, particularly with young girls. Oh, right, okay. So he was slightly surprised when the big tech giants all came and said, We'd like your data, we want your data on this. Now, his data, of course, is protected by GDPR in the UK and in uh and in Europe, but perhaps it's not the same in America. Okay, well just a moment. So he said, I'm I'm not collecting data, I just don't do it, and was certainly not selling it and not making it available in that way because don't know how it's going to be used. And then you're asking the question, how do you want teaching to be done? If it was done by AI, are you going to offer up a different interpretation of whatever you're teaching? Are you offering up uh where where would it have a role and where would it be possibly not sure about that? Don't know. Those are things you just flag up, don't you? Another pal of mine, he's a magician, and he was interested, he's he's saying, Oh, AI. I said, No, AI could be really good, could help you come up with new tricks. There's got to be new tricks done with AI. It could be quite exciting, I would have thought. Um, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 42:13

I wonder if AI could I think it could, and I think that's the thing, is is using it as a res research tool to broaden your horizons and you know, get to or understand things, or how does that work, or find that new trick that you can then finesse and bring your own personality into? That's where I can see it having a great impact. Um, I think relying on AI, you know, to be a TV presenter, it'll never be as good as the real thing. Might be cheaper, but you know, yet I don't, you know, at the moment I don't think it it would be as good. I mean, how could you replace Timmy Mallett? How could you replace him with AI? You could try. I'm just not I'm just not so sure you you you'd be terribly successful. Now, again, I I want to go back to TV uh for a second. Today in TV, I don't I don't know. Are they using AI in TV? Are they using it in productions? Are you seeing it anywhere where it shouldn't be? What's your thoughts on that? I don't know because I don't watch much tell. Having come from the TV industry, you know, has has Telly lost its moment, do you think?

SPEAKER_02: 43:17

Yeah, look, it certainly was a golden age in the early 80s when everybody watched and when it was important and it had a particularly powerful value. And it's not to belittle it now, but there are just other things, aren't there? So it's competing with other things, and the the it even the the regular streaming from the free-to-wear broadcasters is up against it with the streaming giants because people will say, Okay, if I'm going to watch TV, I'll get a box set and I'll binge watch, don't they? That's what I'll do. I'll I'll have a bit of that. Thanks. So uh do we still watch TV in the same way that we used to? So, example of that would be when you first started out in business, you'd go in and say, Did you see last night? And most people in the office did. Hey, can't wait for next Tuesday to see what's gonna happen. Well, where's that gone? That doesn't exist anymore, does it? So uh there's still entertainment shows, there's still big programmes that uh that are that ought to be culturally important. One of them recently was traitors, wasn't it? The frustration there was it wasn't on every night. Oh god, I've got to wait till next Wednesday. What's that about? That's olden days, telly, isn't it? Where you've got to wait, be patient.

SPEAKER_01: 44:38

That's very true. It's very true. Now, when you're talking just about the media, you've got BBC's coming to a bit of Christmas recently, you've got ITV. Do you think they will be in the same format as they are today five, ten years' time, or do you think fundamentally TV's had its day and it's now about that device there or another device or consuming it in a different way?

SPEAKER_02: 45:02

I I'm not sure, Mark, and I think it would be wrong to speculate that. I I don't think I have enough uh uh to be able to speculate on it. One thing I will say is change is a constant, and change is inevitable, and we should embrace it. Uh and you know, welcome it. Everything changes, nothing lasts forever. Plans are useless, but planning is everything.

SPEAKER_01: 45:31

That's very true. Now finally, uh for some of our younger audience members, if they're looking to maybe not just get into TV, but entertainment, you know, if they're looking to get into music, if they're looking to get into art, what would Timmy advise them to do?

SPEAKER_02: 45:46

Do it. Do it, do whatever the thing is that makes you laugh and makes you giggle, make the little film and share it on your socials, put it out, you never know. The algorithms, your lovely algorithms will make it work. And if it's good quality and worthwhile, it'll succeed. Honestly, it's there. The world's your oyster, it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01: 46:12

And I think that's the thing is is for one thing, it's made people more accessible. You can put content out there, whereas back in the 80s, you need a TV studio, a camera, or what have you. Now you've got devices in your hand, and that that to me is what makes the internet and particularly AI interesting, is you can now produce good quality videos from from you know, literally from your handheld device.

SPEAKER_02: 46:33

So, what are you going to do with your automated analytics next? What next wonderful bit of AI do you want to invent, Mark?

SPEAKER_01: 46:39

Well, it's funny you should ask me that, uh, Timmy, because that's the question I have all the time. So I think I told you the story of I was sat in a Benadorm cafe, yep, Benadorm, the Posh bit, Old Town, when I first wrote our algorithm. We're a data analytics company, so it's about analysing more and more data. Um, and so for us, um, one of the next things, uh, the next series that we're looking at is data in sport. And I find it fascinating. That's huge. Yeah, I find it fascinating that so I met the scout for Bioleverkusen, right? Right, met him at a Leeds Aston Villa game. Good. And I'm thinking, what are you doing here? And he says, Well, we don't buy from the from the Premier League because we can't afford it, because we're the German league. But what I want to do is I want to test what I see on the pitch with the reports that I get later to make sure the reports uh calibrate with what my human eye can see. So if I think there's a player out there, look at him, when the report comes back in, because all the teams subscribe to they've all got data passes on their back that track all the movements. Yeah. When I get that data coming back in, which everybody gets, all the teams get the Premier League. I want to make sure what I've seen calibrates for the report.

SPEAKER_02: 47:51

They also get this right the way down through the leagues. I was at uh Maidenhead United um uh versus Hornchurch in Conference South on Saturday. El Clasico, I believe they call it. Fantastic. Uh, utterly brilliant. And uh they were saying, yeah, no, we've got the uh the analytics and it it really makes a difference. It also is going to make a difference for England in the World Cup, isn't it? Yeah, okay, when it comes to penalties, right. You look at the England success rate since uh the last 10 years and it's gone right up because uh, you know, Jordan Pickford's now told, okay, number 11 for Ghana, uh his goal goal scoring in penalties since the age of 16, he always shoots bottom left. Right. He's got it there on his on his water bottle, hasn't he? Bottom left saves it. I'd love to see what the uh algorithms and the uh analytics are doing for the England cricket team in uh in the ashes. I mean uh what? Uh how do you play the pink ball? Uh it there's got to be uh there's got to be a uh a technique for that. There really has. I think I find it fascinating.

SPEAKER_01: 48:58

Well it's funny. So since I launched my business in America, I've got to go and see more American sports. Now, American sports are at the centre of sports data. I mean, the NFL, I would argue, is probably one of the the strongest data data sports in the world. And the way they play baseball, it's all about stats. Yeah. It's all about you know how many um average batting, you know, above 2.2, you've got to get as many of those in your team as you possibly can.

SPEAKER_02: 49:23

Um it's it's all about you know, just have the betting companies then is it is it's surely the fact that all the shirts for the for the Premier League are full of betting companies is to do with data. I mean, data collection is nothing new. There's a famous song from 1967. Simon Agarth uncle, Mrs. Robinson. We'd like to know a little bit about you for our files. Wow. They were singing it then, and they're singing it today. Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 49:53

And and that's the key thing, it's data, and so I'm sure it impacts betting odds. I'm sure data does that, and and um I'm sure there's a lot more that goes goes on that. But I always remember um I was in Charlotte, they they've got a minor league team, and Charlotte hadn't won a couple of games, and we were in the stands, myself and Jason, who's chief operating officer of our US business. We're in the stands, and there's probably about a hundred people in in this stadium that could seat 15,000. And we were losing, so we thought, right, let's get behind the team. So we were cheering the team and cheering the team, and the first baseman's right by us, and we were cheered, yeah. Anything he did, we cheered, and he actually actually ended up hitting a home run. Brilliant! And he came to us at the end of the game, and we were we we were like, could you hear us? He said, like you're standing right next to me. And and there's nothing you can do about giving someone that extra motivation, giving them the extra mile to swing that bat. So no data, no data can tell you that that's gonna happen. That two guys are gonna sit in the stadium with a hundred people and just cheer anything that happened, cheer them on, so it gives him the confidence to go out, swing that bat, hit that home run. And we had a great time that evening, but the fact he came over to us at the end that's nice and gave us a game board, and he actually said, Yeah, you guys made the difference tonight. That's what we went.

SPEAKER_02: 51:14

That's why the why we have the Barmy Army in Australia, isn't it? The Barmy Army are absolutely vital, they make a big difference.

SPEAKER_01: 51:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 51:23

Shame Stokes can't keep in all the time.

SPEAKER_01: 51:26

There is that. And then and then the I mean the other sport that uses it quite a lot is motorsport. And it and it's fascinating because I met one of the Ferrari engineers, and you talk about data. I met uh one of the Ferrari engineers years ago, and they measure 1700 or were measuring 1700 data points a second, but didn't have the computing power to actually process that data. So actually, you'd know what was going on a couple of days off the race. Whereas what they've invested massively in is being able to process that in real time. Now, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 51:56

So I want to know what difference is that going to make in the next couple of seconds. Correct. That's what you need to know, isn't it? And and and you look at the pit stops, uh uh and it's fractions of a second, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 52:08

That the that's oh totally, but it but it's not just that. So what they're doing is they're taking the data from the car, putting it, loading it onto the simulator, running the simulator all night. Brilliant. So then if the simulator goes quicker, we're gonna put that setup on the car the next day, which is why you see the variations in performance overnight. You know, a car go from half a second to to you know, half a second quicker, whatever, yeah, because it's all about processing data. And and the great thing about AI, and this is why I think it's gonna give us is the ability to do things quicker. Yep. Is what I think it's going to do. So, you know, the example of of doing the the the pit stop better, right? How can we do it better? You'll analyse it with AI to work out quicker, right, what do I need to do? And and it's like the football, it's like the Bio Labourkusing guy. You know, he he was literally, we call it data calibration, but he was literally making sure, right, the report I get on on a Monday morning from all the player activity is the same as my naked eye. Because if it is, I believe in that data. And that's his sole reason, was just literally came over to England to make sure what he's supposed on the pitch is actually the report. I wonder how data can help.

SPEAKER_02: 53:12

I thought it's amazing. This is interesting. I wonder how data could make the experience of cycling and painting my way around the islands of Britain and Ireland any easier or better? I mean, I get the data that comes in off Camut or uh Strava that tells me how many miles I've done, of the fact I've climbed the equivalent of climbing Everest 15 times this year on my bike. How does it help create the paintings that tell the stories of the experience? And the data it's in itself doesn't I I don't know. I don't know uh uh whether that's gonna make any difference at all. All I know is that I put them out on the socials and your algorithms feed them to you, and you're gonna be now uh I'm gonna put you onto my little WhatsApp group that will feed you those videos that you'll say, ah, and out of this you'll say, I'll tell you what, Timmy, I've got a little idea. How about that?

SPEAKER_01: 54:17

Absolutely. Well, I think how you're gonna use AI is we we actually sponsored an art festival in Doncaster where the artist used data as it is, if you like, if as his pigment and AI as his canvas, and he actually created the most amazing art pieces that I've ever seen. I literally sat there and was just mesmerized for hours. And and I think actually turning you, Timmy, into an AI artist is my next step in life. If I can have that influence on you.

SPEAKER_02: 54:47

Is there a physical aspect of actually doing it? Yes, absolutely. Is there a physical aspect of me actually painting it?

SPEAKER_01: 54:53

Uh the physical aspect of it will be you taking photos in your camera to create it, the the artwork, and also sounds.

SPEAKER_02: 55:02

Hockney did this, David Hockney did this in the 80s where he would take a set of Polaroids, he'd go with Polaroids, and then stick them together to make a bigger picture. Uh, and it was quite an interesting way of doing it.

SPEAKER_01: 55:15

So, what what you're gonna do is take hundreds of pictures, yeah, put them into a file so that the picture actually moves as you look at it. Great. And and so for me, and again, we'll do that. That that takes how am I gonna do it on the phone? Because it fills up and clogs up. You're gonna get a phone with it. We're gonna delete the apps that are on your phone, the 149 apps. Okay, so that's your job tonight. And put a put more memory on it. And then and then bigger memory on the phone. Uh you might need to buy a new handset, but um well, you put the or put the images in the phone.

SPEAKER_02: 55:43

Let's get on to the one of the handset companies that that does a bigger memory. Yes. And we'll sort that out to provide that. And then the it that's the job is to make the device useful for creating the videos, the stories. Stories are what's key in the end, isn't it? Yeah. The more stories you do, so I'm doing four or five stories a day, three minutes a time, editing them in the evening, putting them out onto the socials. Occasionally I go back and look to see if there are any messages.

SPEAKER_01: 56:18

It's about putting out rather than bringing back in. But what happens if you took a video of your entire cycling journey, and we turned that into a piece of artwork using AI? That would be an amazing thing. That would be good. And and again, it's just it's just taking your art in a different direction, different way. Using and that's the way I see AI, and what I've been impressed, that's why I think AI is a force for good, because you can use it as your method, if you go to me. You can you know, rather than using a paintbrush, you're using AI to get brush to get your story. That's quite important. But you can add this to your genre, you don't just have to stick with the brush and the paint, you can you can expand as an artist, and that's ah now that be that becomes exciting. That that's good value. I like that. Because it just does, it just brings something different into you, and also you know, when I look at the art, I mean the art you produce. I mean, I'm not an artist to me. I I was whenever I look at the paintings like you like the painting. How do you start? Yeah, how do you start? How do you start? And you've done you've done there's a painting you've done that's a lovely, it's the coloured cottages on the coastline that you've done, and it's a really, really nice painting.

SPEAKER_02: 57:27

Now, using AI You're talking about the the long walk at Galway, aren't you?

SPEAKER_01: 57:32

Yes, yes, we are what a great walk that is. That that the long walk at Galway. Now, how could you use AI to to almost make it real time to love and that to get that painting to move? Great. How how could you combine with that? How could you how could you use and that and that's where I think AI will come in with art? Great. Is how does it make that painting come alive? Come alive and be different and give it give it a slightly different touch and feel so that it brings in more people and makes it more relevant.

SPEAKER_02: 57:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, now now you're talking, that's worthwhile. See is exciting. That's where the the this development happens, doesn't it? Yes. And it it's it it's about creativity, uh, where in the end it's about my cycling, my seeing that view, painting it, then saying, right, Mark, make this better. Make this into the next stage. So we'll do that.

SPEAKER_01: 58:27

So what led you to start on the bike? Because I mean I I I use Swift most mornings. I cycle around France literally. Yeah, it's it's an app that um you can connect to your uh turbo trainer and it allows you to to cycle.

SPEAKER_02: 58:39

Why don't you just go out and do the cycle ride around where you live?

SPEAKER_01: 58:42

Uh because I'm worried about getting knocked off. I've almost been knocked off my bike two, three times. So and it's a very efficient way to keep fit.

SPEAKER_02: 58:50

Have you not got any traffic-free cycling near you?

SPEAKER_01: 58:52

Uh we have got the town centre in Donkhast, but I'm a bit more in the country. So and I find it a very efficient way to Well, let's get on to the council then to get some traffic-free cycling and get you out into the country.

SPEAKER_02: 59:07

Because I don't want you scared of being knocked off your bike. I've done six and a half thousand miles around the coasts of of um of Ireland this year, and never once did I feel unsafe.

SPEAKER_01: 59:21

So, what started you on the bike? What started your journey? Was it you just picked a bike one day, or you've always been in sight?

SPEAKER_02: 59:27

Curiosity. Be curious. Get out there and see what how different it is. Look at that lovely sunset tonight in Donny. Sunny Donny, beautiful.

SPEAKER_01: 59:37

You love it here. I got I got a sense of feeling this is not gonna be the last time we're gonna see you.

SPEAKER_02: 59:40

No, it's not in Doncaster. But listen, I've got things to do tonight. Uh I'm at a Christmas party. Are you really? Yeah, at a Christmas party, and I'm gonna suggest we wrap this up.

SPEAKER_01: 59:50

Yes. Timmy, it's been great having you on the show. Really appreciate you coming to Doncaster. Like I say, huge fan. It's a big thing me meeting you anyway. Thanks. Wackaday was a big fan.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:00

I hope your picture one day gets onto Wagger Day.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:02

So do I, so do I. It's in that post bag. It's in that post bag in London. I'm sure it is. But Timmy, thanks very much for coming on.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:09

Oh, look, a real pleasure. And good luck with what you're doing with automated uh analytics. I think it's terrific. I think it's very exciting. It's about leading on to the next thing. And change is a constant.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:21

Thanks, Timmy.